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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Helen Saxon
    • By MSE Helen Saxon 5th Feb 13, 3:11 PM
    • 75Posts
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    MSE Helen Saxon
    Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 13, 3:11 PM
    Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion 5th Feb 13 at 3:11 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the

    Green Deal guide.


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.


    Thanks folks,
    Last edited by Former MSE Andrea; 26-03-2014 at 7:44 PM.
Page 28
  • helenm2008
    Green Deal Experience So Far,,,
    Hello everyone, I thought I'd add my experience so far to the board. I had my assessment done by British Gas back in March. Since then I've been trying to find a provider (for external solid wall insulation).

    There are 6 listed on the governement website for my area (N. Herts). Only one has got back to me so far and told me they will charge me £99 to survey my property before giving me a quote for the work!

    I'm reeling a little about this, never having before had to pay a construction company for the benefit of trying to sell me their services!

    I have to say that the hoops I've had to jump through so far have been a pain. If it wasn't for the fact that i want the insulation and have paid BG £99 already, I wouldn't bother going any further.

    As it is, we've already discarded the finance option, for all the reasons specified by others here - don't want it hanging over any future sale of our home, not convinced that we would save enough on our electricity bill to meet the payments as we are lower users.

    What a faff!
    Debt: June 2013 £2000

    Weight-Loss By December 2013
    14lb/
  • Former MSE Darryl
    MSE News: Green Deal energy scheme slow to warm up
    "The Government's Green Deal scheme, which aims to help people make energy efficient home improvements, is continuing to make a slow start, new figures show..."

    Read the full story:

    Green Deal energy scheme slow to warm up



    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

    • anselld
    • By anselld 27th Jun 13, 10:38 PM
    • 6,326 Posts
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    anselld
    "The main problem" is surely the extortionate interest rate on the loans which must put off anyone who can web bothered to read the small print.
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 28th Jun 13, 3:40 AM
    • 8,248 Posts
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    John_Pierpoint

    Households that qualify for ECO can get work done completely free of charge - the energy companies have targets to reach by 2015 so they have to spend the money. You won't have to pay for the assessment or for any of the work - although you won't be able to claim cashback on this!

    Happy to answer questions on this - I work on ECO for a small charity/think-tank that works with local authorities, so am not touting for business. There is info online (DECC and Ofgem websites) but some of it is somewhat impenetrable!
    Originally posted by joey66
    I am finding it difficult to understand in numeric terms what ECO subsidy is available for hard to treat solid wall homes.

    Let us take the following example of a typical Victorian terrace house:

    Front Elevation:
    14' wide with a flat front, ground floor is door and one large sash window.
    1st floor is a similar sash window and a smaller sash lighting a box room that is now the bathroom.
    Because there is attractive patterned brick detailing, the occupants want internal insulation.

    Rear Elevation:
    2/3rd rear extension with a 1/3rd side return sticking out 10' (ie on the ground floor there is a galley kitchen and probably a WC sticking out into the yard.
    1st floor has two bedrooms, the internal one is about 10ft wide and has a sash window in the corner next to the party wall, over the kitchen there is a narrower bedroom, with another sash window looking out over the rear garden.

    Assume there are no major issues with down pipes and other vents. The occupants want the rear brickwork, walls of 14' wide and 10' long, externally insulated and rendered.

    The occupants are "empty nesters" middle aged and not in receipt of benefits.

    What ECO subsidy to the installer would be available in £s .............?
    Last edited by John_Pierpoint; 28-06-2013 at 3:50 AM.
  • Coulsdon Town
    Is ECO Really Doing That Well?
    Further to my post #540, I've heard a suggestion that most of the 82,000 measures the new stats say have been installed under ECO could be some kind of accounting carry-over from the previous grant scheme. Will let all know if I hear more.
    A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past; he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future. Sidney J. Harris
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 28th Jun 13, 10:25 PM
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    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Further to my post #540, I've heard a suggestion that most of the 82,000 measures the new stats say have been installed under ECO could be some kind of accounting carry-over from the previous grant scheme. Will let all know if I hear more.
    Originally posted by Coulsdon Town
    The proof that prior credits from CESP and CERT have been 'inserted' into the GD / ECO to make the stats look good will be interesting, but not a surprise Coulsdon Town

    The claim in the first quarterly Green Deal and ECO statistics that finally came out yesterday. For those who prefer the pictorial representation of the stats see below :



    Over 5,000 cashback vouchers have been issued and nearly 1,000 paid and only 245 Green Deal Finance Plans for individual households are now on the way through the system. So they've spent shedloads of mi££ions on promotion, paid 1000 sets of incentive money to householders, and that has resulted in only 25% or 245 people 'going through' a finance system that does not yet function and is not expected to function till the end of the year at the earliest according to Minister of State Greg Barker.

    Only step 6 of the 5 step plan will convince me that Green Deal or ECO is doing anything at all for our people. Here in the Northern Hemisphere our Summer Solstice occurred around June 21st so literally the days are getting shorter, we are no where near either Green Deal or ECO. A great idea badly executed, a scheme great in principle remaining as dead as a duck in Sir Peter Viggers £1,600 duck-house.

    .1. Assessment
    .2. Recommendations
    .3. Quotes
    .4. Signing a plan
    .5. Installation

    .6. Step 6 satisfactory completed installation[s] and sign-off

    For those who remember :

    Last edited by Richie-from-the-Boro; 02-07-2013 at 7:15 PM. Reason: Insert : For those who prefer the pictorial representation of the stats see below - credit to Coulsdon Town
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • WoodbridgeRoad
    Green Deal and ECO - solid wall insulation
    Hi all - my first post so do not be too hard on me! Anybody who is interested in external wall insulation - be patient and read to the end.

    I have been struggling through the process - I live in an old house with some single brick walls and some double brick solid walls. After last winter, we decided it was worth trying to get external wall insulation done and get some grant assistance.

    The first difficulty was to get a Green Deal assessment - I eventually did get one and was lucky enough not to pay for it as Suffolk County Council paid for the first 500 via Aran. But it would seem that the companies who are also providers prioritise the surveys for people who are likely to need the services which they are able to provide.

    The survey did recommend wall insulation - but although providers and installers say they can access funds, there has been no firm evidence of this. But driving about you can see external wall insulation work going on to housing association etc properties (ie a number of properties being done at a time)

    I got a bit fed up and wrote to Gregory Barker who is the Minister for the Dept of Energy and Climate Change. The response I got from his civil servant was the usual standard response, but I had copied the letter to my local MP, who also sent it to Gregory Barker.

    That got a proper response which included 'Obligated energy suppliers have complete discretion as to how they meet their legislative targets....There is no entitlement to a grant..... We understand that ECO obligated energy suppliers may not currently be supporting single one off installations because of the high costs involved.

    So I guess I will press on and get planning permission (I live in a conservation area) and hope that maybe next year ECO grants may be available for individual external wall insulation installations.

    Anyone know of a provider who has managed to secure ECO funding for external wall insulation for a single property?
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 29th Jun 13, 8:36 PM
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    John_Pierpoint
    One of the drivers is the looming requirement for landlords to achieve an energy performance rating of better than "F" before 2016 or have their property banned from the rental market.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/9888335/Green-Deal-warning-for-buy-to-let-landlords.html
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 30th Jun 13, 4:46 AM
    • 6,502 Posts
    • 4,141 Thanks
    Ken68
    Makes sense, along with other compulsory measures. Cheaper and safer than subsidies to build nuclear.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 30th Jun 13, 7:49 AM
    • 6,341 Posts
    • 2,900 Thanks
    LeeUK
    One of the drivers is the looming requirement for landlords to achieve an energy performance rating of better than "F" before 2016 or have their property banned from the rental market.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/9888335/Green-Deal-warning-for-buy-to-let-landlords.html
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint
    Already houses for let in my area that have been empty for months and months on end. Single glazed windows and no insulation and no modern combi/condensing gas boiler, just a 1980s gas fire and back boiler. No one is going to rent them when they can rent a house in the same street with all mod cons.
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 30th Jun 13, 8:09 AM
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    John_Pierpoint
    I rather fear "all mod cons" usually means a new kitchen and bathroom.
    I have this theory that teh quality of the cooking seems to be an inverse relationship with the cost of the kitchen ?

    Hands up anyone who has shown round a potential tenant/purchaser, who has started a discussion with "can I have my copy of the EPC?"
    Last edited by John_Pierpoint; 30-06-2013 at 9:31 AM.
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 30th Jun 13, 8:10 AM
    • 8,248 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint
    Makes sense, along with other compulsory measures. Cheaper and safer than subsidies to build nuclear.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    Actually usually cheaper than installing the latest high efficiency heating kit.

    But not a lot of profit in it for the suppliers.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 30th Jun 13, 1:16 PM
    • 6,492 Posts
    • 4,870 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    SAP – the Standard Assessment Procedure - is the Government's approved mechanism for measuring home energy efficiency – taking into account lighting, heating and levels of insulation. The SAP scale runs from 1 (low) to 100 (high) and Energy Performance Certificate bands are based on the SAP scores: a G rated home has a SAP rating of less than 21, an F band home has a rating of less than 39.

    - F&G banded homes can be brought to an E band for less than £3k
    - 15% of the stock will cost more than £5k to bring into an E band
    - most F&G banded stock is in the private rented sector
    - full loft and cavity wall insulation cost less than £1k
    - a modern condensing boiler usually costs less than £3k
    - solid wall insulation is not the single most cost effective measure to bring a house to an E rating
    - electric heating is prevalent in many of the lowest SAP-rated homes
    - EPC's with a SAP rating SAP39 / Band E is a long way from the level of energy efficiency that will be required to ensure that residents are not at risk of fuel poverty
    - F&G's fall below the acceptable minimum standard and risk fuel poverty, of never being able to adequately heat their home, no matter how much they spend
    - F&G's constitute a “category one hazard” for excess cold, as defined in English and Welsh environmental health regulation

    The Cheaper to Treat Band (37% of GB homes in 2005) – Cost less than £1,000 to improve These homes can be brought into the E banding through basic cavity wall and loft insulation measures. Of the 72 house types we analysed, the single most common house type fell into this banding – 19% of F&G rated homes (around 1m homes) are larger or medium sized (probably semi-detached or detached), gas heated, double glazed and with an unfilled cavity wall. All these homes can be brought out of this banding through cavity wall and loft insulation. Generally these homes fall into the F banding.

    The Boiler Band (around 47% of GB homes) – generally cost less than £3,000 to improve These homes can be brought into the E banding most cost effectively by changing to a modern heating system: in particular to condensing boilers for oil fired and gas fired heating systems. Around 10% of homes in this band are currently coal heated, and there is a particularly large carbon saving potential from changing the heating fuel in these homes. For these homes, which are usually in rural areas, we considered that air source heat pumps may be the most appropriate solution. However, installing air source heat pumps may require larger scale changes to the heating system that cost well above the £3,000 limit

    The Windows Band (1.5% of GB homes) – cost £3,000 - £5,000 to improve This is a small group of smaller homes (flats or terraces), electrically or oil heated and single glazed. These homes can be most cost effectively brought into the E banding through changing to double glazed windows, sometimes accompanied by basic insulation measures (loft and cavity wall insulation). As these are small homes, it is assumed that this can be achieved for less than £5,000. On average, these homes just fall into the G banding before improvement, with a SAP rating of 23.

    The Expensive to treat homes (around 15% of GB homes) – cost £5,000 - £9,500 to improve A typical home in this band is larger on average, at least a large semi-detached house. They are generally electrically and oil heated homes, and are built with solid wall construction (though note that many solid wall homes do not fall into this band and can be improved more cheaply). Around 50% of these homes are single glazed and they are all expensive to heat. The average SAP value for these homes is less than 20 – well into the G banding. These homes may be treated by:

    - Double glazing and improvements to loft insulation. As these are larger homes, double glazing is assumed to cost over £5,000
    - Fuel switching (e.g. from electricity to gas). This is likely to involve large scale and expensive changes to heating systems
    - rural, off-gas areas, switching to a condensing gas heating system is not an option, air-source heat pump based system is viable

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

    Most private landlords will simply do the math, for example anything over a £3,000 upgrade will be dumped into the market over the next 2 years for someone else to worry about, the remainder of their stock will have the £3,000 upgrade. Many will choose to go ECO and service the £5,000-£9,000 Windows & Expensive to treat homes upgrade repayments through the householders electricity bills.

    Many will be able to do very little, even if they wish to do more BTL's [very high % small single & couple person block] etc, only own the space, not the roof and walls and will not even be able to participate in the Cheaper to Treat Band even if they were willing to do so and will have to choose to go with glazing only or the Boiler Band or .. .. nothing.
    Last edited by Richie-from-the-Boro; 30-06-2013 at 6:10 PM. Reason: Insert scource URL
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • sheffield lad
    • By sheffield lad 30th Jun 13, 6:23 PM
    • 1,949 Posts
    • 2,941 Thanks
    sheffield lad
    Richie good post, you are correct with the unfilled cavities but often these properties have been left due to the cavity being too narrow. Some of the energy firms have been looking into this and are almost ready to go with a charted surveyor currently signing the work off for them.

    Most all electric properties in the UK are actually social landlords not private. Cities such as Leeds & Hull gambled back in the 1970's that electric was going to be cheap as chips and gas was going to run out! Unfortunately that gamble did not pay off and both cities have thousands upon thousands of houses/flats/tower blocks with under floor electric & electric warm air (horrible), which require an off peak rate (normally 16hr), which also restricts the type of company and tariff they can have. There is no easy cost effective solution to this situation (other than fitting E7 storage heaters), and both councils are retrofitting with external wall to offer some benefit.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 30th Jun 13, 10:16 PM
    • 6,492 Posts
    • 4,870 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie good post, you are correct with the unfilled cavities but often these properties have been left due to the cavity being too narrow. Some of the energy firms have been looking into this and are almost ready to go with a charted surveyor currently signing the work off for them.

    Most all electric properties in the UK are actually social landlords not private. Cities such as Leeds & Hull gambled back in the 1970's that electric was going to be cheap as chips and gas was going to run out! Unfortunately that gamble did not pay off and both cities have thousands upon thousands of houses/flats/tower blocks with under floor electric & electric warm air (horrible), which require an off peak rate (normally 16hr), which also restricts the type of company and tariff they can have. There is no easy cost effective solution to this situation (other than fitting E7 storage heaters), and both councils are retrofitting with external wall to offer some benefit.
    Originally posted by sheffield lad
    Ta sheffield lad,

    Agreed most are LA / HA,I have an input into a HA and last year we looked at the impending legislation. With 42,000 housing stock we are already 'E' rated minimum. My point made then to the powers that be is the acceptable is unacceptable. Doing a complete refit of say 500 dwellings per annum with the heating and insulation at £3k would be a short term and short sighted investment. Moving to band 'D' should be the target, the point I was making was that 2000 dwelling per year over 20 years ÷ 40,000 units would take 20 years, and in the next decade or so the bar would almost likely or certainly have to be raised to [expected basic decent level for energy efficiency - or carbon targets] band 'D' by GOV. Its worthy of note that we have already treated other non-traditional HTT dwellings with external wall insulation applied, new boilers, photovoltaic panels, and their electric heating systems switched to gas.

    E7 / E10 stored heat systems are often quoted as causal contributors to the lowest SAP - rated homes, my personal 35 year association with E7 leads me to believe that its not necessarily the case that such owner / tenants are never able to adequately heat their home, no matter how much they spend. There's a like for like modern swap out already on the market that will deliver the (1) comfort and (2) controllability element so sadly lacking in the legacy 'night store' installs for the same 7-9 hours delivery model. Take a standard open plan modern build 2 up & down 'town house' 60-70 m² social housing unit aged 25-30 years with filled walls and loft insulation and PartL installed heating. Here the EER & EIR would put running costs in band D and CO emissions in band E, putting in a retrofit £3k+ gas system in would :

    - reduce energy use : 454 kWh/m² to 423 kWh/m² per!year
    - reduce Carbon dioxide emissions : 3.7 tonnes per year to 3.5!tonnes!per!year
    - reduce Lighting : £30 per year to £30 per year
    - reduce Heating : £405 per year to £348 per year
    - reduce Hot!water : £113 per year to £113 per year

    E7 / E10 ceiling / floor /warm air / electric wet radiator systems should have been replaced by the 80's. A not inconsiderable 60's & 70's estates build dwelling type needs external wall [HTT] most council stock is now HA and most ex 'corporation' housing was post war built like brick thingy-houses with cavity construction, albeit designed with plenty of the draughts - a re-requisite of coal burning fires. You are correct that the mistakes of the 60's 70's with the cities in the sky [flats/ tower blocks] leave big social owners of such blocks out on a very expensive limb. I agree with you that putting a £50,000 heating system in an under-insulated tower block or a badly designed modernist council estate is a folly.

    I'm not sure however that electricity is not the way to go, our problem in this country is we have none because we generate none and we generate none because we relied on carbon and continue to rely on carbon, and will always [fracking next stop] rely on carbon and £100 Bi££ion spent on little windy mills, that's £112 a year for everyone in the UK added to their leccy bills, for these redundant windy mill graveyard & scrapyards on sea and land in 15 or so [2,000 turbines rotting in the Californian desert] years. That's in addition to the cost of substantial 'back up' plant on the grid. Stupid little 'kettle' lakes are called kettle lakes for a reason, they only gave a couple of minutes generating power. We as a nation backed the wrong cheap energy horse when the tree huggers and sandal wearers took over the agenda. Doomsday sayers back in the days of Copernicus at the same time as the inquisition a bloke called Galileo forced the consensus that the earth was the centre of the universe just because the political consensus now says we have global warming does not mean the world will end- it won't. 250 years ago we had 4 trillion tons of carbon underground, we've burnt a 1/2 trillion tons or so in 250 years, gimme a break .............

    Nobody likes the truth, and I mean nobody. As long as this country avoids the inevitable and fails to build nuclear we will forever be at the mercy of primary resources of which we have none. Building toy windmills, pointing little bits of silicon at the sun and putting wiggly worms in the waves won't hack it .. .. if we covered the entire island and its shoreline in them it still would not provide power for the nation. Temperature stopped rising 15 years ago, the scientists knew it and said so. The politicians however continue to trott out global warming to frighten the nation into paying for stupid windy mills as a way of generating employment and reducing the need for carbon purchase costs [coal & oil] but its not to reduce global warming. Globally the earth has warmed 0.8% since the industrial revolution, carbon dioxide has been on holiday since 1997 its still at 400ppm. Don't you find its a curious fact that all political traction - not scientific traction that drives these initiatives ? Put the whole worthless 'green' scenario in the long grass till about 2050 then have a~n~other look at the efficacy of UK 'green' energy, it might have improved .. .. but I doubt it. Do I want a nuke power station next to me, aye go on - I've got one 16 miles from here [1969- 1984], I suppose another won't hurt, I mean its been there for nearly 30 years and done me no harm. I haven't turned green don't glow in the dark and all my kids have the same amount of toes I have.

    All options are cost-dis-benefit and need megga taxpayer subsidy, regardless of green / nuclear / gas / coal:

    - nuclear can / will provide for base & peak demand
    - coal & gas could if built provide for base & peak demand
    - coal is the most polluting, and is unlikely ever to make a comeback for that reason
    - green can not now and never ever will ever provide for base & peak demand
    - gas is the most state security risky, one twist of Putin's megalomaniac tap, the lights go out, the heating goes off
    - off the graph's, gas is the decade on decade inexorably rising cost and is the single biggest generator of electricity
    - nuclear, when invented, was supposed to be so cheap that metering it was a pointless and unnecessary cost - yeh right !

    Folks we have an endless water supply and an island of 'clarts' we can survive indefinitely as an island nation, we can feed and clothe our people but we aint got king-coal and can no longer function without energy. The 59 nuclear reactors in France mean they make about 75% of their needs and have economic and energy security, indeed they sell us their surplus leccy. They own our power companies and water companies, their nuclear strategy remains essentially unchanged from day one, why would they change it, they're laughing all the way to the bank and their nation has security. I'm not denying Fukushima, and Chernobyl and the risks with nuclear I just hold a different view - nuclear was the best of a bad set of options even when Scargill ruled the carbon fields, it continued to be the best in the last 30 [10% of American electricity comes from former Russian warheads] years but we invested in more carbon. We should face the truth and build a zero-carbon small factor nuclear that works for mankind.

    At some point it will be nuclear power or going to war at one level or another, the fact of the matter is, if anyone turns off America's tap, war - unlike toy wars such as Afghanistan & Iraq will be instant and final against those with this precious resource. Face the future - its a truth no one wants to face - I'd just rather do it now than later.

    Right - off to watch the footy !
    Last edited by Richie-from-the-Boro; 14-07-2013 at 1:44 PM.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • Coulsdon Town
    All Mod Cons?
    Already houses for let in my area that have been empty for months and months on end. Single glazed windows and no insulation and no modern combi/condensing gas boiler, just a 1980s gas fire and back boiler. No one is going to rent them when they can rent a house in the same street with all mod cons.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    Hi LeeUK,
    Can you tell us a bit more of your example please? By 'mod cons' do you mean insulation, recent double glazing and a modern gas boiler? What type of landlord owns the outdated housing, and what type of landlord owns the better housing? Are the landlords of the un-let properties showing any sign of waking up and spending some money on them?
    A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past; he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future. Sidney J. Harris
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 1st Jul 13, 11:37 AM
    • 6,341 Posts
    • 2,900 Thanks
    LeeUK
    Hi LeeUK,
    Can you tell us a bit more of your example please? By 'mod cons' do you mean insulation, recent double glazing and a modern gas boiler? What type of landlord owns the outdated housing, and what type of landlord owns the better housing? Are the landlords of the un-let properties showing any sign of waking up and spending some money on them?
    Originally posted by Coulsdon Town
    By mod cons I do indeed mean modern double glazing, gas boiler, loft insulation (confirmed by EPC) etc etc and up to date kitchen/bathroom.

    The ones that lay empty for months in a state of disrepair are owned by absent/overseas landlords who are only thinking of a quick £££ (only it's not happening).

    I regularly browse the property portals to see what is for sale/let in my town.
  • tannoy
    I'm about to purchase a property. I'm not moving in straightaway because the 3 bed terraced house has been neglected over the years and is in need of some TLC.

    Currently there is a hot air heating system and a separate hot water boiler. I've instructed my builders to install gas central heating, radiators in each room and a combi-boiler.

    My completion date isn't until the end of July and the builders will start there work immediately. Am I able to send in assessor before I move or do I need to have some previous energy bills to take advantage of the green deal?
  • Coulsdon Town
    Can Green Deal be Repaired?
    A critique of the (poor) design of Green Deal, by an industry insider :
    http://builtonperformance.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/green-deal-why-its-not-working-and-how-to-fix-it/comment-page-1/#comment-64
    A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past; he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future. Sidney J. Harris
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 3rd Jul 13, 11:58 AM
    • 8,248 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint
    Houses are bought by women and sold by estate agents.

    I have yet to meet a female house purchaser or an estate agent's assistant, with any knowledge of the physics or even the terminology used for assessing an home's energy performance.

    When we see potential purchasers on property porn programmes, ignoring the fittted kitchen and the new en suite bathroom, and getting the "wow factor" or even the "kerb appeal" from the "A rating" factors of a property - only then will the green deal make sense to the majority of the population.

    Some people claim that cars are being bought on their economy factors BUT when I am driving my car the running costs are probably easily £10 an hour - fortunately the energy costs of living in a house are nothing like that.

    Relatively rational and grounded MSE forum members discuss the features of homes in this fun thread.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=62213135#post62213135
    Last edited by John_Pierpoint; 03-07-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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