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  • Wywth
    • #2
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:22 AM
    • #2
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:22 AM
    Only 4 tariffs per supplier?

    Presumably that is per supplier licence (else how is a supplier defined?)

    That could lead to issues with suppliers that offer 'branded' tariffs, such as Age UK, M&S, etc.

    Also Ebico might find that there is no room left for them if SSE want all 4 tariff offerings for themselves.

    Edit: These type of supplies, referred to as "White Label Suppliers" in the Ofgem proposals, will not be affected until the end of 2014 "to allow alternative arrangements to be made".
    Ofgem go on "We think it is in consumers‟ interests to give further consideration to the right regulatory framework for these alternative business models, which have the potential to deliver greater competition. We will progress that debate through the autumn."

    Edit 2: "Parent and white label suppliers will be exempt from providing each other‟s tariffs in cheapest tariff messaging until 31 December 2014."
    Last edited by Wywth; 21-06-2013 at 9:00 AM.
  • Wywth
    • #3
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:35 AM
    • #3
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:35 AM
    Link to full Ofgem proposals here:

    http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/MARKETS/RETMKTS/RMR/Documents1/The%20Retail%20Market%20Review%20-%20Statutory%20Consultation%20on%20RMR%20Domestic% 20Proposals.pdf
    • MillicentBystander
    • By MillicentBystander 21st Jun 13, 8:41 AM
    • 3,450 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    MillicentBystander
    • #4
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:41 AM
    • #4
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:41 AM
    Only 4 tariffs per supplier?

    Presumably that is per supplier licence (else how is a supplier defined?)

    That could lead to issues with suppliers that offer 'branded' tariffs, such as Age UK, M&S, etc.

    Also Ebico might find that there is no room left for them if SSE want all 4 tariff offerings for themselves.
    Originally posted by Wywth

    Haven't Ebico got their own supply licence? Even if they haven't I can't see OFGEM being comfortable with their proposals reducing the number of suppliers in the market.

    PS Aren't these new proposals exactly what the much maligned (by some on here) Utility Warehouse have been doing for years?

    Edit: Oh dear, Ebico don't have their own licence. Not good.


    Ironically, however, the four-tariff cap now emerging from Cameron's pledge and Ofgem's Retail Market Review (RMR) could put white label energy suppliers - including Ebico - out of business. As RMR currently stands, a white labeller will either have to offer the same tariff as its partner or obtain its own supply licence from the energy regulator - something Levermore recognises as "a real threat to us".
    http://www.utilityweek.co.uk/news/news_story.asp?id=198309&title=A+few+good+men
    Last edited by MillicentBystander; 21-06-2013 at 9:01 AM.
    • penrhyn
    • By penrhyn 21st Jun 13, 8:59 AM
    • 15,006 Posts
    • 8,056 Thanks
    penrhyn
    • #5
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:59 AM
    • #5
    • 21st Jun 13, 8:59 AM
    No more cheap deals, dumbed down tariffs for the, for those who can't be arsed to sort out the best deal for themselves.
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
    • MillicentBystander
    • By MillicentBystander 21st Jun 13, 9:04 AM
    • 3,450 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    MillicentBystander
    • #6
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:04 AM
    • #6
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:04 AM
    No more cheap deals, dumbed down tariffs for the, for those who can't be arsed to sort out the best deal for themselves.
    Originally posted by penrhyn


    What about the 80 year old granny in Martin's example? Should they REALLY have to pay top dollar so you can keep getting your subsidised deal? No fair minded person would say yes, surely....
    • penrhyn
    • By penrhyn 21st Jun 13, 9:08 AM
    • 15,006 Posts
    • 8,056 Thanks
    penrhyn
    • #7
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:08 AM
    • #7
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:08 AM
    Granny gets her winter fuel allowance.
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
    • Nada666
    • By Nada666 21st Jun 13, 9:12 AM
    • 4,868 Posts
    • 3,886 Thanks
    Nada666
    • #8
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:12 AM
    • #8
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:12 AM
    ... plus she gets more than the winter fuel allowance in pension credit guarantee every month of the year.
  • Wywth
    • #9
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:13 AM
    • #9
    • 21st Jun 13, 9:13 AM
    Having read the Ofgem report further, it appears whilst there is definitely an exemption to white label suppliers until end of July 2014, this exemption could well be extended if such white label suppliers are not tempted to apply for their own supply licence (Ofgem have already been informed of the difficulties many would face in doing so, including the cost which would have to be passed onto customers) or a "licence lite"


    So it seems all a major supplier has to do is team up with other organsiations and then they can offer as many white label tariffs as they want

    Edit: this could be fun!

    Carlsberg gas & electricity tariff - probably the best energy tariff in the world

    Stella Artois tariff - a reassuringly expensive energy tariff

    Aldi energy tariff - like brands only cheaper

    Last edited by Wywth; 21-06-2013 at 9:20 AM.
    • penrhyn
    • By penrhyn 21st Jun 13, 9:20 AM
    • 15,006 Posts
    • 8,056 Thanks
    penrhyn
    Now that standing charges are going to be universal its the ideal opportunity to scrap the BBC licence fee and add it to the electricity bill.

    In other news, there are only 186 days until Christmas.
    A bottle of Laphroaig will keep out those winter chills, can you thing of a better use for your wfa?
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 21st Jun 13, 9:28 AM
    • 27,974 Posts
    • 13,832 Thanks
    Cardew
    Energy companies can still offer discounts for those who take gas and electricity together, if they sign up online or if they pay by direct debit.

    These discounts will not serve to create a new tariff under Ofgem's definition but will be defined as money off one of the four core tariffs, expressed in pounds and pence.
    With(apparently) no restriction on the size of discount for dual fuel, on-line accounts or payment method, the permutations for the best deal are huge.

    e.g. Would it be better to forgo the dual fuel discount and get gas and electricity from different companies.

    As discounts are to be in 'pounds and pence' will it stop inducements such as Nectar points being offered? Or firms like UW tying in gas and electricity supply to discounts on their telephony services.

    How will a 'Pounds and Pence' discount be applied to a tariff? As a flat rate regardless of consumption, or per kWh? e.g. would someone using 500kWh get the same discount as someone using 20,000kWh?

    This is NOT an argument against discounts, merely that they can make matters just as complicated.
    • zerog
    • By zerog 21st Jun 13, 10:20 AM
    • 2,432 Posts
    • 855 Thanks
    zerog
    The "granny" has children who can switch fuel supply for her. If she can't afford her bills maybe she should have saved up more money when she was younger, or move in with her children.
    • MillicentBystander
    • By MillicentBystander 21st Jun 13, 10:52 AM
    • 3,450 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    MillicentBystander
    The "granny" has children who can switch fuel supply for her. If she can't afford her bills maybe she should have saved up more money when she was younger, or move in with her children.
    Originally posted by zerog


    Are you Norman Tebbit?


    PS If I have read this right, I do see problems ahead for npower.


    2.29. At the May workshops we made clear that all cash discounts were prohibited, with the only two exceptions being the dual fuel and online discounts. We also made clear that our definition of discounts would cover any bundles and reward points ie offers of goods and/or services provided for free or at a discounted price (non-cash discounts). We explained that the permitted cash discounts would have to be provided on a continuous basis, so that they would not be capable of constituting a termination fee or have a lock-in effect.
  • Wywth
    ...
    PS If I have read this right, I do see problems ahead for npower.
    Originally posted by MillicentBystander
    What problems do you foresee?

    Presumably you are thinking about the current discount nPower provide for customers paying monthly by DD? If so, that is surely covered by the first sentence you quote.

    So nPower could simply withdraw that by the end of the year. And as this presumably falls under the remit of 'regulatory reasons', then they could pull it from those customers who have signed up to longer term fix rate tariffs too

    Other suppliers who for example offer prompt payment discounts would be similarly affected, so nothing unique to nPower.
    • MillicentBystander
    • By MillicentBystander 21st Jun 13, 11:05 AM
    • 3,450 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    MillicentBystander
    Granny gets her winter fuel allowance.
    Originally posted by penrhyn

    Which is not in any way granted because she is getting ripped off by her supplier. It's a completely separate argument.
    • MillicentBystander
    • By MillicentBystander 21st Jun 13, 11:08 AM
    • 3,450 Posts
    • 2,225 Thanks
    MillicentBystander
    What problems do you foresee?

    Presumably you are thinking about the current discount nPower provide for customers paying monthly by DD? If so, that is surely covered by the first sentence you quote.

    So nPower could simply withdraw that by the end of the year. And as this presumably falls under the remit of 'regulatory reasons', then they could pull it from those customers who have signed up to longer term fix rate tariffs too
    Originally posted by Wywth

    Not sure but I read that to mean that npower wouldn't be permitted to grant the annual discount paid in arrears because it's basically a lock-in/termination fee by another name. This discount is the only way they get to the top (or near) of the switching sites.
    • penrhyn
    • By penrhyn 21st Jun 13, 12:01 PM
    • 15,006 Posts
    • 8,056 Thanks
    penrhyn
    Which is not in any way granted because she is getting ripped off by her supplier. It's a completely separate argument.
    Originally posted by MillicentBystander

    Agreed it was a Bribe by the former prime mentalist to get more votes. However it still goes towards Grannies energy bill.
    That gum you like is coming back in style.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 21st Jun 13, 12:08 PM
    • 27,974 Posts
    • 13,832 Thanks
    Cardew
    Are you Norman Tebbit?


    PS If I have read this right, I do see problems ahead for npower.
    Originally posted by MillicentBystander
    2.29. At the May workshops we made clear that all cash discounts were prohibited, with the only two exceptions being the dual fuel and online discounts. We also made clear that our definition of discounts would cover any bundles and reward points – ie offers of goods and/or services – provided for free or at a discounted price (non-cash discounts).

    We explained that the permitted cash discounts would have to be provided on a continuous basis, so that they would not be capable of constituting a termination fee or have a lock-in effect.
    I think you are absolutely correct about Npower.

    Also, as suggested above, and with a large dose of Schadenfreude, UW?
    • undaunted
    • By undaunted 21st Jun 13, 12:11 PM
    • 1,862 Posts
    • 964 Thanks
    undaunted
    What about the 80 year old granny in Martin's example? Should they REALLY have to pay top dollar so you can keep getting your subsidised deal? No fair minded person would say yes, surely....
    Originally posted by MillicentBystander
    Granny shouldn't have to pay top dollar but should be given support (especially by her nearest & dearest! but possibly also by suppliers) to sort her way through to the most suitable tarriff (they can offer)

    The biggest problems in the energy market are not the number of tarrifs. This is just more fiddling around the edges in order to look like doing something useful whilst in reality doing very little for most consumers in my opinion
    • undaunted
    • By undaunted 21st Jun 13, 12:15 PM
    • 1,862 Posts
    • 964 Thanks
    undaunted
    PS If I have read this right, I do see problems ahead for npower.
    Originally posted by MillicentBystander
    Maybe Dave & George think it's payback time for their tax fiddling?

    Npower being Npower however I wouldn't hold my breath for them not just circumventing any "problems" in the same way they have they taxes
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