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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Debs
    Real-life MMD: Holiday nightmare - should we forgo £6,000 or pay £1,000 more?
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 13, 12:45 PM
    Real-life MMD: Holiday nightmare - should we forgo £6,000 or pay £1,000 more? 14th Mar 13 at 12:45 PM
    Money Moral Dilemma: Holiday nightmare - should we forgo £6,000 or pay £1,000 more?

    We recently paid £12,000 for a "holiday of a lifetime", which includes a Rocky Mountains train ride. AFTER paying, the company told us we'd need to cross picket lines. As trade unionists, we refuse to do this. We want to cancel but the firm says we'll lose half our cash. The alternative's paying £945 to rearrange our trip. Should we cancel and lose £6,000, or pay the extra and travel with a company that has deceived us?


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    Last edited by Former MSE Debs; 19-03-2013 at 4:11 PM.
Page 1
    • katecheshire
    • By katecheshire 19th Mar 13, 8:18 PM
    • 227 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    katecheshire
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 13, 8:18 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 13, 8:18 PM
    If the company were not aware that you were likely to object, they haven't exactly deceived you. I'm not sure at what point a discussion on picket lines would crop up in holiday planning so I'm curious about how you found out.

    I admire your principles which are either going to cost you £6000 or £945.
    • lizardking
    • By lizardking 19th Mar 13, 9:02 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 362 Thanks
    lizardking
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 13, 9:02 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 13, 9:02 PM
    How about if you considered it from the other perspective, if you were picketing and someone came up and explained they'd spent £6000 on their 'holiday of a lifetime' but only after found out about the protest, would you think less of them etc or tell them to enjoy their holiday?

    You could also consider giving the £945 to their union, or to help their cause in some way.
    Last edited by lizardking; 19-03-2013 at 10:10 PM.
  • DuncanDavis
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 13, 9:07 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 13, 9:07 PM
    Depends what they mean by cross a picket and where, why etc?

    if there is industrial action that will affect your holiday and they clearly knew about it before booking, then threaten them with the small claims court and bad publicity.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 19th Mar 13, 9:14 PM
    • 11,738 Posts
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    JimmyTheWig
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 13, 9:14 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 13, 9:14 PM
    I agree with Kate in that the company haven't decieved you by not mentioning the picket lines.
    If you had asked "will we need to cross picket lines?" and they said "no", then you are (surely) entitled to a full refund as the holiday was mis-sold. But not mentioning something which you can't reasonably expect them to mention doesn't count as being decieved.

    The elephant in the room option, as lizardking aludes to, is to go anyway and cross the picket line. Good for you for standing by your principles and not even considering this as an option.

    So with that not an option, and putting the feelings that they deceived you to one side, it's simply a question of money.
    Spend an extra £945 and get a holiday of a lifetime or get £6000 in your pocket. That, in effect, means "is the holiday worth £6945?"
    Given you were happy to pay £12,000 for it, I'd say "yes".
    Assuming that you can reasonably get your hands on £1000 then I'd say go with that option.

    But I would complain to the company in question. Point out the amount of money you are spending, point out that you, personally, consider it the company's fault for not telling you and that because they haven't rectified their mistake you are unlikely to travel with them in the future. Ask, as a gesture of goodwill, that they refund the £945.
    [And if they do, you could always forward it (or half of it) on to the workers in struggle for their fighting fund!]
    • zorber
    • By zorber 19th Mar 13, 10:56 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
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    zorber
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 13, 10:56 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 13, 10:56 PM
    What a topic.

    You havent been decieved.

    You obviously have more money than sence if you can afford to forego £6k and why rearrange your holiday which will cost you more money.

    I am more than annnoyed with trade unions blackmailing business. We all want to earn more money have better benefits etc but in times of recession the business may not be able to afford to pay more or give larger benefits. In fact this industrial dispute may send the company into administration threating all the workers jobs, never mind losing your holiday because of it.

    Take your holiday, enjoy it as i quess you have probably earned it.
    "Save the cheerleader - Save the world"
  • Macca83
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 13, 11:04 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 13, 11:04 PM
    Im not sure in what situation you'd end up crossing a picket line on holiday. I thought you only crossed a picket line if you opted out of strike action and decided to work.
    My understanding of this isn't very clear. I think id need it explained further.
    • keet83
    • By keet83 19th Mar 13, 11:15 PM
    • 211 Posts
    • 94 Thanks
    keet83
    • #8
    • 19th Mar 13, 11:15 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Mar 13, 11:15 PM
    If you were sensible and paid by credit card then wouldn't you be covered by section 75?
    Beggars cant be choosers, but savers can!
    That used to be the case
    • jessiedebbie
    • By jessiedebbie 19th Mar 13, 11:25 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    jessiedebbie
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 13, 11:25 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 13, 11:25 PM
    I am shocked to read this. I am a union man but I fail to see how this is a problem. If I was entering a place of work and had to cross a picket line I would refuse but on holiday. Never, you are mad and have far too much money if you think putting principles first will make you a better man.
    Go on the holiday and stop being silly.
  • originaladidas
    Agree with the poster about crossing a picket line, you dont work there, it's nothing to do with you whatever their dispute is with their employers.

    You're not going to be a scab by crossing the line you're there as a tourist not as an employee trying to get into work.

    Also agree with someone as to how this came up in conversation!? Presume it's something they were told they had to inform you of? If so you could go back to them and ask them when they knew of the situation? If it was before you paid up you may have some comeback? I dont know the legals on that!

    If its the trip of a lifetime dont let a bunch of fat american hamburger chompers protesting about the fact they havent invaded a country recently bother you, put some dark glasses on and walk on by.
    • kerri_dfw
    • By kerri_dfw 20th Mar 13, 2:57 AM
    • 4,556 Posts
    • 29,115 Thanks
    kerri_dfw
    3 options then:
    - stand by your principles and lose £6k....well done you...blatent first world problems!
    - rearrange and cost yourself a grand - yet again, first world problems
    - get over yourself and go on the blinking holiday, if it's costing that much it's likely one of those "once in a lifetime" ones that most of us can't go on anyway. I find it a bit insulting you're even asking us to be honest.

    Oh actually....there is another option. Seeing as you have more money than sense, donate your holiday to someone more worthy of it. You don't have to lose any money, you don't get the holiday but hey! your principles weren't compromised.
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    • lutzi1
    • By lutzi1 20th Mar 13, 7:13 AM
    • 2,671 Posts
    • 48,236 Thanks
    lutzi1
    If you don't seem to have the first idea as to what this dispute is actually about, based on what's posted here, let alone whether you think it's justified, go ahead and lose your money. If you're prepared to support industrial action regardless, without knowing the first thing about it, you ask for all you get.
    Hope is not a strategy.
  • 1867jo
    Another option
    Maybe the strike will be over by the time you get there !!!
    • DKLS
    • By DKLS 20th Mar 13, 7:19 AM
    • 12,761 Posts
    • 21,519 Thanks
    DKLS
    is this 2013 or the 1970's? Solidarity with Rocky Mountain Train Workers how admirable
    • jagu
    • By jagu 20th Mar 13, 7:21 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    jagu
    Is the real reason you don't want to cross the picket line that it is against your union principles, or are you just worried what the pickets will think of people who go on £12,000 holidays?

    If the pickets think you are fat-cats and you should cancel or move your holiday at great expense for the sake of a token gesture, they don't deserve your support.
    • r_p_james
    • By r_p_james 20th Mar 13, 7:40 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    r_p_james
    What's the problem
    I'm not sure that this is actually a current dilemma. A quick Google search shows that the Rocky Mountain Railroad dispute ended in September 2012, although after over a year it sounds quite acrimonious - I can't post the link but the Vancouver Courier has the story.

    If this is a current dilemma then I don't really see what the problem is now. The dispute is resolved, there may be some ongoing picketing but it looks to me as though you wouldn't be crossing any official picket lines.

    If it's historical then the length of the dispute indicates that the travel agent should have informed the customer and it would seem there was an element of mis-selling involved.
    • SueC
    • By SueC 20th Mar 13, 8:12 AM
    • 1,549 Posts
    • 1,890 Thanks
    SueC
    Is that what Unions are meant to be about?

    Someone, somewhere, anyone, anywhere in the world is protesting about something, purpose unclear; but because you are also in a Union, albeit a completely different Union, in a completely different ecomony, in a completely different country, you must also protest on principle, even if it is at great personal cost?

    Wow, I had no idea.
    • Sooler
    • By Sooler 20th Mar 13, 8:52 AM
    • 2,898 Posts
    • 2,107 Thanks
    Sooler
    You must cancel, stand firm with your brothers Ö take the hit on the cost and donate what you get back to the Rocky Mountain Train Workers. Your time staying at home can be used for fund raising and raising awareness of the workers plight. Send food parcels etc.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 20th Mar 13, 9:26 AM
    • 11,738 Posts
    • 11,306 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    Im not sure in what situation you'd end up crossing a picket line on holiday. I thought you only crossed a picket line if you opted out of strike action and decided to work.
    Originally posted by Macca83
    I am a union man but I fail to see how this is a problem. If I was entering a place of work and had to cross a picket line I would refuse but on holiday. Never
    Originally posted by jessiedebbie
    I can see the OP's point.
    It's certainly not as extreme as crossing a picket line to go to work, but I do think that by crossing even as a customer you send the wrong message to those on strike.

    So, for example, if shop workers were on strike and had set up a picket line outside their shop I wouldn't cross the picket line to do my shopping - I'd leave it until another day or go elsewhere.
    • Saetana
    • By Saetana 20th Mar 13, 10:02 AM
    • 1,149 Posts
    • 2,273 Thanks
    Saetana
    Oh please, this is not a dilemma - but it does remind me why I find trade unionists incredibly irritating and why I regret the one time I joined one. Its YOUR problem and not that of the travel agency, I assume they only informed you in the first place because of possible delays on that part of the trip - it is not down to them because you refuse to cross a picket line for an unknown company in another blooming country during a dispute you know nothing about. Either pay the extra or cancel, I honestly don't care either way.

    MSE - these so-called moral dilemmas are getting ridiculous, if you haven't got a good one that people can relate to then give it a miss that week, they have been going from the ridiculous to the sublime lately
    Last edited by Saetana; 20-03-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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