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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 7th Feb 13, 2:22 PM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    '10 changes that'd make the Green Deal more popular' blog discussion
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 13, 2:22 PM
    '10 changes that'd make the Green Deal more popular' blog discussion 7th Feb 13 at 2:22 PM
    This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.





    Please click 'post reply' to discuss below.
Page 1
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 7th Feb 13, 4:50 PM
    • 9,273 Posts
    • 9,438 Thanks
    rogerblack
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 13, 4:50 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 13, 4:50 PM
    Over a ten year minimum period, you will be paying around 40% in interest, if the loan is 7%. (This neglects inflation)
    Added to this, the £100 or so that is due up front.

    Only suppliers (or groups of suppliers) able to do the full range of work from windows to solid wall insulation will be able to do work under the green deal.

    An existing similar scheme of approval is the Renewable Heat Incentive.
    This requires buisnesses to register in order to do work.
    It's an unfortunate reality that the work they do is considerably more expensive than the rate for the work on the open market.
    This is likely to happen for the green deal.
    It would not surprise me that people will end up paying around double the total amount for an install under the green deal, than paying cash to a local company.
    Is it still a good deal for some - yes.
  • Coulsdon Town
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 13, 8:01 AM
    Three Green Deal Threads
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 13, 8:01 AM
    This is the third Green Deal thread i've found on MSE.The main one is linked from the bottom of the MSE 'Green Deal Mythbusters' article and has 7 pages and 5000+ views as of Sunday 10/2/2013. Anyone know how to get them merged into one?
    A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past; he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future. Sidney J. Harris
  • Gloucester Lad
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 13, 6:40 PM
    Martin's improvement suggestions
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 13, 6:40 PM
    Martin, your 10 suggestions for improving the Green Deal are a step in the right direction but it's tinkering around the edges of an already very poor scheme.
    Why not just make the Green Deal dead simple and competitively priced?
    Just get quotes, apply for a subsidized interest free or low interest loan and have a final check to make sure the work is up to scratch before the funds are released to the contractor? A simple EPC identifies what's needed if anyone is unsure and there's no need for inflated prices or multiple layers of unnecessary bureaucracy or silly caveats.
    I think that would work.

    The current Green deal is a racehorse designed by committee with the final result a camel. Why did they have to come up with a massively over complex and expensive scheme? Justification of their own existence perhaps?
    I don't think it will succeed.
    I don't think it deserves to succeed.
    Bring on simple Green Deal Mk2.
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 13th Feb 13, 8:32 PM
    • 13,533 Posts
    • 18,778 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 13, 8:32 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Feb 13, 8:32 PM
    This is the Home Information Pack (HIP) and Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) scheme all over again:
    1. If you used a HIP / EPC provider direct, there was a fixed maximum cost.
    2. If you used an estate agent for the HIP / EPC, they could charge what the hell they liked.
    Another example of why HM Gov should get out of green initiatives and concentrate on rebuilding our economy and clearing the deficit.
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?

    I live in the UK City of Culture 2021
  • flower pot
    • #6
    • 26th Mar 13, 3:37 PM
    A waste of time!!!
    • #6
    • 26th Mar 13, 3:37 PM
    Hi, i have just come off the phone, after searching for weeks for an assesor in my area, to find that because i have already got wall/ loft insulation, and a new boiler (paid out of my own pocket), that i would not be able to claim the full amount needed for double glazing. Why? because they say that going from single glazed windows ( mine are the old crital and compleatly out of shape and very drafty!!) to double glazed windows would only save you £60 per year, thus you would only get part grant and with paying for the assessment fee and funds ontop for the short fall from the goverment it wouldn't be worth it. Both my husband and i work, we don't get any help with anything, and simply can't afford double glazed windows - i thought the 'Green deal' was meant to help people like us!!!
  • Never got nowt free
    • #7
    • 2nd Apr 14, 8:42 AM
    • #7
    • 2nd Apr 14, 8:42 AM
    Hi, i have just come off the phone, after searching for weeks for an assesor in my area, to find that because i have already got wall/ loft insulation, and a new boiler (paid out of my own pocket), that i would not be able to claim the full amount needed for double glazing. Why? because they say that going from single glazed windows ( mine are the old crital and compleatly out of shape and very drafty!!) to double glazed windows would only save you £60 per year, thus you would only get part grant and with paying for the assessment fee and funds ontop for the short fall from the goverment it wouldn't be worth it. Both my husband and i work, we don't get any help with anything, and simply can't afford double glazed windows - i thought the 'Green deal' was meant to help people like us!!!
    Originally posted by flower pot
    My father used to say is it "God helps them who help them selves"
    Or is it "God help them who help them selves" the latter I think! Flower Pot
    Last edited by Never got nowt free; 02-04-2014 at 8:44 AM.
    • captainhindsight
    • By captainhindsight 3rd Apr 14, 10:30 AM
    • 1,242 Posts
    • 495 Thanks
    captainhindsight
    • #8
    • 3rd Apr 14, 10:30 AM
    • #8
    • 3rd Apr 14, 10:30 AM
    Hi, i have just come off the phone, after searching for weeks for an assesor in my area, to find that because i have already got wall/ loft insulation, and a new boiler (paid out of my own pocket), that i would not be able to claim the full amount needed for double glazing. Why? because they say that going from single glazed windows ( mine are the old crital and compleatly out of shape and very drafty!!) to double glazed windows would only save you £60 per year, thus you would only get part grant and with paying for the assessment fee and funds ontop for the short fall from the goverment it wouldn't be worth it. Both my husband and i work, we don't get any help with anything, and simply can't afford double glazed windows - i thought the 'Green deal' was meant to help people like us!!!
    Originally posted by flower pot
    The green deal is intended to pay for cost effective improvements, double glazing will very rarely be able to payfor its self in energy savings over a reasonable timescale. What you should do is install draftproofing into your existing windows this should help and will be cost effective.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
    • captainhindsight
    • By captainhindsight 3rd Apr 14, 10:44 AM
    • 1,242 Posts
    • 495 Thanks
    captainhindsight
    • #9
    • 3rd Apr 14, 10:44 AM
    • #9
    • 3rd Apr 14, 10:44 AM
    This is the Home Information Pack (HIP) and Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) scheme all over again:
    1. If you used a HIP / EPC provider direct, there was a fixed maximum cost.
    2. If you used an estate agent for the HIP / EPC, they could charge what the hell they liked.
    Another example of why HM Gov should get out of green initiatives and concentrate on rebuilding our economy and clearing the deficit.
    Originally posted by MothballsWallet
    I think 'green' ideas can help improve our economy, if every household in the UK made cost-effective changes to their homes it would significantly reduce the energy demands of the country as a whole and hopefully mean a future of sustainable and affordable energy supply.

    In addition to that, it creates jobs and work in different trades; manufacture of products and materials, installation jobs for skilled tradesmen and assessing jobs.

    All of that by just encouraging cost effective improvements to peoples homes imo.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
    • captainhindsight
    • By captainhindsight 3rd Apr 14, 11:04 AM
    • 1,242 Posts
    • 495 Thanks
    captainhindsight
    Over a ten year minimum period, you will be paying around 40% in interest, if the loan is 7%. (This neglects inflation)
    Added to this, the £100 or so that is due up front.
    Originally posted by rogerblack
    People keep bashing green deal for the interest rate but if you see here on MSE 'Cheap Personal Loan Tool' its showing the best deals for under £5,000 to be 7.8% APR - all the way up to 18.5% all of these are still subject to credit checks and approval so imo for people who need to borrow money to make any improvements to their homes and reduce their cost of living it is a viable and attractive offer.

    But obviously if you have the cash it is better to just pay for it.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • Mortman12
    Back,to the future
    I used to work for insulation manufacturer ( top UK tech guy) and they are scathing about green deal they think it's cut retro fit insulation by 90% It's also not joined up,personally I have a poorly nnsulated room in roof now the company linked to this site said yes R in r is part of scheme. But it's a specialist job( no it isn't) so go to DECC WEBSITE

    On that the R in R heading is only one without a link !

    Re cavity wall we had our old house done under the£199 scheme years back. The new house same estate same year build 1990 but they won't do it even if I pay full amount. House no old enough

    Saving the plant. My a**e
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