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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 4th May 12, 11:00 AM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    0 WOW
    MSE News: BMI Baby closure Q&A: your rights
    • #1
    • 4th May 12, 11:00 AM
    0 WOW
    MSE News: BMI Baby closure Q&A: your rights 4th May 12 at 11:00 AM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "Thousands of holidaymakers' plans have been left in tatters after BA's owner announced plans to close down BMI Baby ..."

Page 1
    • richardw
    • By richardw 4th May 12, 11:14 AM
    • 18,963 Posts
    • 8,003 Thanks
    richardw
    • #2
    • 4th May 12, 11:14 AM
    • #2
    • 4th May 12, 11:14 AM
    Bmibaby passengers whose flights are cancelled have a right to re-routing under EU regulation EC 261/2004 article 5 and 8, IAG must offer re-routing or they are in breach of the regulation.
    Last edited by richardw; 09-05-2012 at 7:16 AM.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 4th May 12, 11:19 AM
    • 18,963 Posts
    • 8,003 Thanks
    richardw
    • #3
    • 4th May 12, 11:19 AM
    • #3
    • 4th May 12, 11:19 AM
    Centipede100's post

    "Quote from BMIBaby website:

    Will you come to an arrangement with other carriers to transfer our tickets?
    We are unable to transfer customers on to alternative airlines including bmi and British Airways.

    To rebook elsewhere now is too expensive - will you come to an arrangement with other carriers so they will offer us reduced rate tickets?
    We are unable to offer customers preferential rates with alternative airlines, including bmi and British Airways.

    EC 261/2004 Article 8 comes into play here, despite what BMIBaby have stated above:

    Article 8

    Right to reimbursement or re-routing

    1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:

    (a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

    - a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

    (b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

    (c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

    2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.

    3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

    Passengers are entitled to a re-route on either the original carrier or if that is impossible (due to withdrawal of a route for example) on an alternative carrier.

    If passengers do not wish to take the refund but be re-routed as is their right, they should write to BMIBaby in the first instance and give the airline 48 hours notice that unless a suitable re-route is offered, the passenger will book elsewhere and expect the airline to reimburse them for the differential in the fare. I say this because fares with alternative carriers may rise quickly and you will need to mitigate yours and BMIbaby's potential exposure. You should also categorically state that you do not wish to be refunded but re-routed.

    There are a couple of examples below where passengers stood their ground and insisted on their rights under the Regulation and both received recompense by the airline (one of which was BMIbaby).

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3070460&highlight=lewroll

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2287415&highlight=robins66

    My posts are just advice, nothing more nothing less. What you choose to do with them is up to you."
    Last edited by richardw; 25-05-2012 at 8:08 AM.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
  • spheric
    • #4
    • 4th May 12, 1:46 PM
    • #4
    • 4th May 12, 1:46 PM
    This article needs looking at...

    Surely, the first thing people would come to MSE for in this case would be for help in rescuing their plans.

    My travel insurance's airline failure clause words the relevent section as covering you if the airline "ceases to trade". Which would apply to flights once the whole thing has closed down, but not to those affected by the first tranche of closures. If I'd have been affected, that would've made an interesting argument (me arguing that the cancellations are the first phase of a closure, them arguing that the airline is still operating).

    As for EU rights, there's no way IAG can argue force majeure, so it becomes a matter of whether IAG inherit liability when BMI baby disappears. I fear they may try to delay claims long enough to vanish the business and then leave people claiming from an empty, closed account.

    Credit card liability isn't limited to the purchase price... You're perfectly entitled to claim consequential loss from them, just as you would direct from any business that left you out of pocket.

    Anyone who is affected by this has my deepest sympathy, and I sincerely hope MSE is working on some sort of practical help for those who are now in trouble.
    Last edited by spheric; 04-05-2012 at 1:48 PM.
    • bagand96
    • By bagand96 4th May 12, 4:42 PM
    • 2,977 Posts
    • 1,887 Thanks
    bagand96
    • #5
    • 4th May 12, 4:42 PM
    • #5
    • 4th May 12, 4:42 PM
    This could get messy... If bmibaby stall and stall, by the time you end up in small claims court there might not be a bmibaby to turn up? Who do you summon then? Bmi? BA? IAG?
    • richardw
    • By richardw 4th May 12, 5:00 PM
    • 18,963 Posts
    • 8,003 Thanks
    richardw
    • #6
    • 4th May 12, 5:00 PM
    • #6
    • 4th May 12, 5:00 PM
    This could get messy... If bmibaby stall and stall, by the time you end up in small claims court there might not be a bmibaby to turn up? Who do you summon then? Bmi? BA? IAG?
    Originally posted by bagand96
    bmibaby appears to be being shutdown by IAG, so my guess is IAG.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • bagand96
    • By bagand96 4th May 12, 11:49 PM
    • 2,977 Posts
    • 1,887 Thanks
    bagand96
    • #7
    • 4th May 12, 11:49 PM
    • #7
    • 4th May 12, 11:49 PM
    Hundreds of BMI Baby staff's lives have been left in tatters after BA's owner announced plans to close down BMI Baby.

    This is the real tragedy.
    Originally posted by will-in-estoril
    Absolutely and well said.

    I do hope that any MSEr's who find cause to contact bmibaby over the coming weeks realise that the poor person at the end of the phone doesn't know how they'll pay the bills in September. And no; they didn't ask for this either.
    • balletshoes
    • By balletshoes 5th May 12, 9:33 AM
    • 16,152 Posts
    • 41,146 Thanks
    balletshoes
    • #8
    • 5th May 12, 9:33 AM
    • #8
    • 5th May 12, 9:33 AM
    I contacted bmibaby yesterday by phone, as my flight situation wasn't clear cut (outbound still operational, but return withdrawn). The agent I spoke to could not have been more helpful.
    • superflygal
    • By superflygal 5th May 12, 8:46 PM
    • 1,076 Posts
    • 2,130 Thanks
    superflygal
    • #9
    • 5th May 12, 8:46 PM
    • #9
    • 5th May 12, 8:46 PM
    Hundreds of BMI Baby staff's lives have been left in tatters after BA's owner announced plans to close down BMI Baby.

    This is the real tragedy.
    Originally posted by will-in-estoril
    I just want to say thank you very much for thinking of us! I am one of those people who will be jobless. I am a stewardess (at least for a few more months) I have a young family, and absolutely loved my job. It was wonderful. I will miss it so much, and can't see me ever having a job like that again. Gutted.

    SFG x
    • bagand96
    • By bagand96 5th May 12, 11:15 PM
    • 2,977 Posts
    • 1,887 Thanks
    bagand96
    I just want to say thank you very much for thinking of us! I am one of those people who will be jobless. I am a stewardess (at least for a few more months) I have a young family, and absolutely loved my job. It was wonderful. I will miss it so much, and can't see me ever having a job like that again. Gutted.
    Sorry to hear of it it's a horrible situation. Keep the faith... I don't know where your based but other airlines have already announced they are expanding into baby's breach so there may be opportunities there. Maybe not this summer but you never know.

    Just don't be tempted to go "self employed" with the blue and yellow lot who register their planes in Ireland
    • superflygal
    • By superflygal 6th May 12, 2:35 PM
    • 1,076 Posts
    • 2,130 Thanks
    superflygal
    Just don't be tempted to go "self employed" with the blue and yellow lot who register their planes in Ireland [/QUOTE]

    Hey Bagand96,

    No fear, I would rather be on the dole than work for them!! I know an ex RA girl, who delivered a baby inflight, gave the new mother her uniform coat to clothe the unexpected new arrival. She was told she had to operate her next 2 sectors and PAY for a new coat as she "shouldn't have given it away then should she?" (by her manager) Not a word of thanks or praise was given to her.

    Thanks for your nice words!!

    SFG x
  • Celt36
    Sorry to hear you lost your job Superflygal.Makes my problem seem a bit less significant.

    Booked a holiday through Directline holidays(ABTA,ATOL paid by credit card) and the flight from Belfast City Airport is discontinued.They have an alternative flight from Belfast international on JET2 the same dates but it is 1100 dearer.Does anyone have an opinion as to who is liable for the difference or is there a different alternative?
    • Alan Bowen
    • By Alan Bowen 7th May 12, 11:04 AM
    • 3,186 Posts
    • 1,605 Thanks
    Alan Bowen
    If you bought it as a package, it is up to the operator to replace the flights at no extra cost. If you decided to go down the 'moneysaving route' by booking the individual parts separately, so Directline made it clear they were separate and unconnected contracts with BMIBaby for the flights and a bed bank for the accommodation, then you may be stuck with either buying new flights or trying to get Directline to give you a refund, which may be subject to cancellation charges for the accommodation. Hopefully you bought a package at a single price for everything in which case Directline must replace the flight or offer a full refund
  • Celt36
    Thanks for the reply Alan,
    Purchased it as a package from Directline,got confirmation email from them and BMIbaby on flights and holiday.Spoke to Directline who said they would give me a full refund no problem, but I would be unable to book anything at this late stage for anything like the price.
    I told the rep that I didnt want the refund,I wanted them to put me on the flight from Belfast international which is a few hours earlier with JET2 and they insisted I would be responsible for the extra cost of 1100.
    The same holiday,with the same hotel and accomodation and dates is on the Directline website with different flights and much much dearer.
  • frogleapx
    Section 75
    Thankyou for the story guy
    Yes you are correct that there is room to claim under section 75 for a refund however my understanding of section 75 is that one could claim for much more

    take this theoretical example

    you book with BMI a flight to alicante from east midlands for 150

    now the market cost of the flight with Thomson airways is 250.

    can you claim the 150 + the 100 market differance?

    this ombusman ruling (86/05) suggests you can

    unable to post hyperlinks but google(issue 86 86/05 ombudsman) to see a similar case

    i wonder if the MSE researchers could look closer into this issue

    cheers
    frogleapx
    Last edited by frogleapx; 08-05-2012 at 2:53 PM. Reason: wrong case initially selected
    • sunshine
    • By sunshine 9th May 12, 4:28 PM
    • 152 Posts
    • 64 Thanks
    sunshine
    We had flights booked with bmi baby for August (Belfast - Malaga). Just checked my credit card and the money has been refunded in full. That was quick.
  • JamiSaint
    Very sad for the customers and the staff, but it was a rubbish airline - I remember they moved my flight on business when I worked at a tiny charity at very little notice, and wouldn't refund the charity the card charges they charged. I never flew with them again, good riddance.
    • walesrob
    • By walesrob 10th May 12, 10:06 AM
    • 737 Posts
    • 2,008 Thanks
    walesrob
    I nearly always fly with BMIBaby for Spanish flights for many years, from Cardiff (now long gone) and most recently, Birmingham, on Monday. On every flight, I found the cabin staff pleasant and helpful. Its a shame its all ended like this, as I always thought BMIBaby seemed to be the best of the budget carriers.
    • sickkitty
    • By sickkitty 10th May 12, 11:59 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sickkitty
    Need help! I booked flights for me and my friend, Glasgow to east midlands. The account i used to pay for the flights i cant use and i have been trying to get ahold of some at bmi baby to change the details to my new account. Everytime i phone they keep fobbing me off with someone will phone me back or someone with email me. I have now sent a letter too. Think i am not going to see my money again!
    • Louisdf
    • By Louisdf 10th May 12, 2:19 PM
    • 568 Posts
    • 666 Thanks
    Louisdf
    Very sad for the customers and the staff, but it was a rubbish airline - I remember they moved my flight on business when I worked at a tiny charity at very little notice, and wouldn't refund the charity the card charges they charged. I never flew with them again, good riddance.
    Originally posted by JamiSaint
    Bmibaby was also the company who robbed 40 off people for their 'oversized' hand luggage. Even when it was proved that their testing cages were smaller than they were supposed to be, they still refused to refund the many people who they had scammed.
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