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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 29th Feb 12, 4:11 PM
    • 1,628Posts
    • 1,255Thanks
    MSE Guy
    MSE Blog: Donít let contactless cards make you look a fool
    • #1
    • 29th Feb 12, 4:11 PM
    MSE Blog: Donít let contactless cards make you look a fool 29th Feb 12 at 4:11 PM
    Hi all, this is a thread to discuss the MSE blog:
    Donít let contactless cards make you look a fool

    "Iíve been getting nasty stares as I enter my local train station over recent weeks, like Iím some kind of pariah, for the heinous crime of my Oyster card not opening the gates quickly enough in the London rush hour...."

Page 1
    • TwistedPsycho
    • By TwistedPsycho 29th Feb 12, 4:22 PM
    • 780 Posts
    • 1,016 Thanks
    TwistedPsycho
    • #2
    • 29th Feb 12, 4:22 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Feb 12, 4:22 PM
    I also found that Oyster Readers do not like Portsmouth NHS Trust ID cards (nor Portsmouth Hospitals like Oyster)
    Signaller, author, father, carer.
    • dealer wins
    • By dealer wins 29th Feb 12, 4:57 PM
    • 6,380 Posts
    • 12,794 Thanks
    dealer wins
    • #3
    • 29th Feb 12, 4:57 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Feb 12, 4:57 PM
    Wait until we start getting charged 5 times for a single journey. On the Oyster card, debit card, credit card, mobile phone and arm implanted payment system.

    Who will we complain to then!!!
    Choose life
    • callum9999
    • By callum9999 29th Feb 12, 5:30 PM
    • 3,950 Posts
    • 2,408 Thanks
    callum9999
    • #4
    • 29th Feb 12, 5:30 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Feb 12, 5:30 PM
    Wait until we start getting charged 5 times for a single journey. On the Oyster card, debit card, credit card, mobile phone and arm implanted payment system.

    Who will we complain to then!!!
    Originally posted by dealer wins
    Apparently that's not possible as the machine tells you to only use 1 if more than 1 card tries to go through simultaneously.
  • Jammi
    • #5
    • 29th Feb 12, 6:31 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Feb 12, 6:31 PM
    Apparently that's not possible as the machine tells you to only use 1 if more than 1 card tries to go through simultaneously.
    Originally posted by callum9999
    I have a combined contact-less Barclaycard and Oyster card(onepulse). With buses about to accept payments by contact-less credit card. I wonder how the system will decide which payment method to charge.
    • sly_dog_jonah
    • By sly_dog_jonah 1st Mar 12, 3:57 PM
    • 1,005 Posts
    • 1,211 Thanks
    sly_dog_jonah
    • #6
    • 1st Mar 12, 3:57 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Mar 12, 3:57 PM
    I've also started having issues with exactly the same Barclaycard Mastercard and Oyster combination, and had suspected this was the cause. Fortunately I only use the Oyster a couple of times a month when I come up to London. Will try rearranging my cards in my wallet next time I'm up (in fact my 18month old DD does this twice a week when I'm not looking).
    • danny_x
    • By danny_x 7th Mar 12, 9:22 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    danny_x
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 12, 9:22 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 12, 9:22 AM
    I don't use my Oyster card that often, but earlier this year it started triggering the "seek assistance" light at the barrier every time. Not much help when there's no staff, and if it was staffed they would just wave me through. My card is registered, so I checked online and found I was being charged for not touching in or out at the start or end of a journey. I managed to claim back the £10 or so a week it cost me after several phone calls. I thought the Oyster card must be faulty and changed it, but the same happened with the new one. I eventually twigged that my credit card had been renewed with a contactless card for the first time, and have had no problem since I started removed my Oyster card from my wallet each time I swipe it.

    Nobody at TFL suggested that this might be the cause of the problem. Not surprising when they are making £61 million a year through Oyster malfunctions
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12139796
  • Mattie77
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 12, 12:52 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 12, 12:52 AM
    Contactless cards can also be read electronically by (presumably illegal) "readers". Someone has one of these "readers" in a small bag and passes close to your handbag or wallet pocket and picks up your information. A friend recently sent me this info from a TV news service in the States. They suggested wrapping the wireless card in metal - like tin foil - as this will disrupt the signal and safeguard your information. When you want to use it, just unwrap. Hope this helps.
    • nomoneytoday
    • By nomoneytoday 12th Mar 12, 7:45 AM
    • 4,763 Posts
    • 2,881 Thanks
    nomoneytoday
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 12, 7:45 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 12, 7:45 AM
    Contactless cards can also be read electronically by (presumably illegal) "readers". Someone has one of these "readers" in a small bag and passes close to your handbag or wallet pocket and picks up your information. A friend recently sent me this info from a TV news service in the States. They suggested wrapping the wireless card in metal - like tin foil - as this will disrupt the signal and safeguard your information. When you want to use it, just unwrap. Hope this helps.
    Originally posted by Mattie77
    Why not just lock up all of your cards in a safe, and put the tin foil on your heads
    • Gromitt
    • By Gromitt 12th Mar 12, 12:34 PM
    • 4,981 Posts
    • 2,384 Thanks
    Gromitt
    Contactless cards can also be read electronically by (presumably illegal) "readers"
    Originally posted by Mattie77
    The readers are not illegal to purchase or use. Reading a card with one is also not illegal. Decrypting the contents of a contactless card for unauthorised use is the illegal part, but if that happens and is later used to defraud you, the most you'll lose is £45, and the bank will refund within 24 hours.

    So just use a contactless credit card and a non-contactless debit card if you are that concerned about an unauthorised transaction putting you into unauthorised overdraft.
    • Rotti
    • By Rotti 9th Oct 12, 8:19 AM
    • 221 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    Rotti
    Contactless cards can also be read electronically by (presumably illegal) "readers". Someone has one of these "readers" in a small bag and passes close to your handbag or wallet pocket and picks up your information. A friend recently sent me this info from a TV news service in the States. They suggested wrapping the wireless card in metal - like tin foil - as this will disrupt the signal and safeguard your information. When you want to use it, just unwrap. Hope this helps.
    Originally posted by Mattie77
    Have only just picked up on this thread as have just had my first contact with contactless cards. HSBC sent me one when my debit card expired and I didn't really take much notice - don't use the kind of places that take these like Starbucks and don't possess an Oyster Card, so really didn't know what it was all about. Until a policeman friend updated me that is! I was not aware that the information can be read from you just by someone walking past with a scanner - how ridiculous is that? And in an age of heightened security surely it is a backwards step in the name of convenience? They might only work for small transactions but if they clone enough of the same card they could hit you hard and then you are the one that has the hassle of getting the money back and being without a card while it is replaced. I called HSBC and was told a large survey was done - nobody surveyed me! I told them I didn't want ANY contactless cards as I considered them a liability and they are sending a chip and pin replacement. I have to wonder how many others there are out there who don't realise the full implications of these things.
    • oldagetraveller
    • By oldagetraveller 9th Oct 12, 10:12 AM
    • 3,287 Posts
    • 1,787 Thanks
    oldagetraveller
    "I told them I didn't want ANY contactless cards as I considered them a liability and they are sending a chip and pin replacement."

    I told smile just the same thing, on receipt of a new "contactless" debit card, but they do/will not provide a chip and pin replacement. Therefore the card has been destroyed and will not be used. Consequently my smile account has been run down and everything transferred over to an alternative account where I believe the opt out is possible - at the moment!
    R.I.P. U.K. Democracy.
  • dalesrider
    Have only just picked up on this thread
    Originally posted by Rotti
    But you have managed to post the self same thing 3 times so far...

    As the point of this thread was keeping oyster and contactless together. STOPS THEM WORKING....

    How can a reader get any details

    Because keeping 2 or more contactless has exactly the same effect.

    As to any transactions taking you over your limts. Any charges would also be refunded by the bank.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 9th Oct 12, 1:51 PM
    • 7,082 Posts
    • 3,918 Thanks
    chattychappy
    I wish readers were more widely available/sold.

    In the case of Oyster, this would be very useful to check you have been charged properly. I know you can check online/at certain machines/at some ticket offices. But all these methods have drawbacks.

    Seems to me part of the business model is that people won't notice mistakes (be it by them or the oyster system).
  • grumpyx
    Contactless cards in the real world
    I haven't found a better forum than this one so I hope this is relevant.

    I can see the issues with wrong cards being used will increase significantly as contactless cards are rolled out. I don't believe the card companies have thought through what really happens. When I make a card payment, I take out my wallet (left hand) and hold the card in my right hand. For security I hold the card reader in my left hand so others cannot see the PIN I enter. The trouble is that the contactless card/s in the wallet held in my hand are now in range of the contactless /card reader and the under £20 payment will already be taken from one of the contactless cards and not the card I am trying to use.

    Solution 1: A confirmation is need to say Yes I want to pay with card xxxx.

    Solution 2: The contactless readers are physically separated from customers so that the contactless card that you actually want to use is handed to the retailer for them to scan.

    The quoted benefits of contactless payment fall down as soon as the wrong card takes the payment and you have go through the process of cancelling that wrong payment.

    The card companies never considered that consumers would have more than 1 card. As soon as you have a contactless and a PIN based card, problems can arise. Adding more contactless cards just make the matters worse.

    In the meantime card companies should allow customers to choose which cards they want contactless. Any support?
    • SnowTiger
    • By SnowTiger 29th May 13, 4:04 PM
    • 3,688 Posts
    • 2,701 Thanks
    SnowTiger
    The quoted benefits of contactless payment fall down as soon as the wrong card takes the payment and you have go through the process of cancelling that wrong payment.

    The card companies never considered that consumers would have more than 1 card.
    Originally posted by grumpyx
    Usually, if two or more cards are together none of them can be read.

    I expect many people who have used these systems know how fussy the readers are about how cards are presented to them.

    Every time new technology is introduced we get a raft of horror stories about it.

    Mobile phones were going to give us all cancer.

    Chip and PIN was invented by the banks to steal money from us because purchases would no longer require a signature.

    I'm not too fussed about contactless either way. If you don't like it there's that paper and metal stuff you can use instead. Or you could perform surgery on your cards to disable the wireless feature.
  • grumpyx
    contactless cards
    I was actually thinking of trying to pay with a credit card and PIN but a contactless current account card in my wallet being used instead. This appear to be the issue at Marks and Spencers. The pain of having to always check your receipt for the account used and getting the transaction cancelled if wrong or even worse finding out later, seems too much. Just confirming which card is to be used first seems a staight forward step.
    • SnowTiger
    • By SnowTiger 29th May 13, 7:20 PM
    • 3,688 Posts
    • 2,701 Thanks
    SnowTiger
    I was actually thinking of trying to pay with a credit card and PIN but a contactless current account card in my wallet being used instead. This appear to be the issue at Marks and Spencers. The pain of having to always check your receipt for the account used and getting the transaction cancelled if wrong or even worse finding out later, seems too much. Just confirming which card is to be used first seems a staight forward step.
    Originally posted by grumpyx
    Similar issues were highlighted at M&S recently: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545804.

    I guess this could be something to do with how M&S has positioned its terminals.
  • ianpop1
    There was a feature on Radio2 Simon Mayo show before Christmas about this and a British inventor was talking about a new invention that goes in your wallet next to your cards and stops anything reading them when you dont want. Found a company online called Gizmopromotions that had a lot of info on the issue. It definately works I tried it with my S3 phone which has a free app on it that reads my contactless cards and even my passport. I know banks will try and be secure but only a couple of weeks ago a gang stole $45M from cash machines using cloned cards. Having had an ID fraud on my bank account 5 years ago I do not want to go through that again! Yes the bank gave me back the money but then it pretty much walks away. I found out that if you have a bank card related fraud you cannot report it to the police Its up to the bank to report it. The police never contacted me about the fraud on me despite it being several thousand. Cost me a lot of time and money sorting out and the bank had my account on a higher security level meaning it was a lot more difficult to use my OWN account. Any way my card shield works and no need for a heavy metal wallet or scrappy foil.
    Last edited by ianpop1; 08-06-2013 at 5:12 PM.
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 8th Jun 13, 8:53 AM
    • 10,586 Posts
    • 57,494 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    Get one of THESE.
    1984 WAS NOT AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1308

    You can't be a Christian AND a Socialist.
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