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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 7th Feb 11, 2:57 PM
    • 1,628Posts
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    MSE Guy
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Flaw revealed in John Lewis 'Never Knowingly Undersold' price guarantee
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 11, 2:57 PM
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Flaw revealed in John Lewis 'Never Knowingly Undersold' price guarantee 7th Feb 11 at 2:57 PM
    "The store has come under fire after it was revealed its guarantee won't apply on many electricals ..."
Page 1
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 7th Feb 11, 3:36 PM
    • 2,458 Posts
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    thelawnet
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 11, 3:36 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Feb 11, 3:36 PM
    Hardly unfair, I've read many forum posts of people getting John Lewis to price match a competitor in order to get JL's 5 year guarantee 'free'.

    They aren't required to price match at all.
    • Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • By Paulgonnabedebtfree 7th Feb 11, 3:39 PM
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    Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 11, 3:39 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Feb 11, 3:39 PM
    Then they should drop this so called "guarantee" with immediate effect. It's just a BS marketing gimmick that isn't worth the paper it is written on, is dishonest, and should be illegal.
    Misleading pitches like theirs really irritate me.
    A bit like the "UP TO 99% OFF" on selected items - which usually means that two items have been marked down by 0.1%.
    Charlatans, spivs and con artists.
    No wonder so many MPs used to buy from them.
    • Loanranger
    • By Loanranger 7th Feb 11, 3:44 PM
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    Loanranger
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 11, 3:44 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Feb 11, 3:44 PM
    Not unfair at all!
    John Lewis are comparing like with like.
    Isn't this what Martin tells us to do when comparing insurance prices?
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 7th Feb 11, 4:00 PM
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    WestonDave
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:00 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:00 PM
    Hmm - on one hand its fair enough that they want a like for like match otherwise it could get a bit daft - Argos is 5 cheaper but you have to collect it from John O Groats whereas JL deliver free etc. However if JL are adding non standard benefits that no-one else is offering in the market - e.g. free extended warranties or non standard length warranties (for example JL offer 2 or 5 years, whereas most do 1 or 3 years) - then its clear they are never going to price match and so it becomes a meaningless gimmick.

    The real question is whether they are actually being as clever as they think. If I were marketing JL (and you + they will be glad I'm not!) I would be a bit wary of this policy creating a groundswell of bad feeling rather than being a positive tactic. It might be better to market on quality and benefits rather than trying to compete on outright price.
    • Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • By Paulgonnabedebtfree 7th Feb 11, 4:02 PM
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    Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:02 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:02 PM
    Whatever someone's view of it, I do feel that John Lewis are shooting themself in the foot with this one. If they are using this bit of bogus marketing to get people through the doors, only to tell them that they won't price match, that may well be worse than never offering a misleading promise in the first place.
    You see, once I realise that a company is trying to take me for an idiot, I put myself out not to do business with them.
    Not that they are bothered, because I am small fry and they are big fish.
    Maybe their strategy does gain them sales over all but it wouldn't work with me.
    Mind you, I'm a tight git. I would rather go to freecycle anyway
    • Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • By Paulgonnabedebtfree 7th Feb 11, 4:03 PM
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    Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:03 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:03 PM
    Hmm - on one hand its fair enough that they want a like for like match otherwise it could get a bit daft - Argos is 5 cheaper but you have to collect it from John O Groats whereas JL deliver free etc. However if JL are adding non standard benefits that no-one else is offering in the market - e.g. free extended warranties or non standard length warranties (for example JL offer 2 or 5 years, whereas most do 1 or 3 years) - then its clear they are never going to price match and so it becomes a meaningless gimmick.

    The real question is whether they are actually being as clever as they think. If I were marketing JL (and you + they will be glad I'm not!) I would be a bit wary of this policy creating a groundswell of bad feeling rather than being a positive tactic. It might be better to market on quality and benefits rather than trying to compete on outright price.
    Originally posted by WestonDave
    Pretty much my view but you say it much better than I.
    • Sooler
    • By Sooler 7th Feb 11, 4:14 PM
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    Sooler
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:14 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:14 PM
    The trick would be for JL to price match and give the same length warranty.

    Argos Washing machine 219 with 1 year warranty

    JL Washing machine 279 with 2 year warranty - no price match

    JL price match Washing machine 219 with 1 year warranty.
    • gt94sss2
    • By gt94sss2 7th Feb 11, 4:21 PM
    • 4,240 Posts
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    gt94sss2
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:21 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 11, 4:21 PM
    Then they should drop this so called "guarantee" with immediate effect. It's just a BS marketing gimmick that isn't worth the paper it is written on, is dishonest, and should be illegal.
    Originally posted by Paulgonnabedebtfree
    Agreed - especially since expensive electronic items like washing machines and TV's will be covered for up to 5-6 years via the Sales of Goods Act - regardless of whether you buy it from John Lewis or another retailer - and regardless of whether they 'officially' have a 1, 2, 3 or 5 year warranty..

    Regards
    Sunil
  • meher
    but they clarify it: as long as their service conditions are comparable, such as delivery charges and guarantee terms

    Comparable service conditions include factors such as:
    • delivery charges and timescales
    • guarantees provided free or at a charge
    • fitting or installation services, including accreditation of fitters, scope of workmanship, materials used and timescales
    • Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • By Paulgonnabedebtfree 7th Feb 11, 4:53 PM
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    Paulgonnabedebtfree
    I've not seen their ad but it's a fair bet that the price match bit is in 10 feet high lettering emblazoned in lights and the finer details are in two point high lettering that you couldn't read with a hubble telescope . And, if you are really lucky, the two point high lettering might even be a different colour from the background.
    They should start a new company. "Chameleon Marketing Ltd."

    Yeah I know, I know. I do rip the pi55 out of some of these companies' tactics.
    Last edited by Paulgonnabedebtfree; 07-02-2011 at 4:56 PM.
  • meher
    They should start a new company. "Chameleon Marketing Ltd."
    Originally posted by Paulgonnabedebtfree
    excuse me
    The trick would be for JL to price match and give the same length warranty.

    Argos Washing machine 219 with 1 year warranty

    JL Washing machine 279 with 2 year warranty - no price match

    JL price match Washing machine 219 with 1 year warranty.
    Originally posted by Sooler
    why would they want to do that

    It's their business model; one that classifies them in a different league, earns our trust and enhances their reputation.

    it's a socialist business enterprise - I love john lewis

    It appaears to be gimmicky that they haven't highlighted it in the front page but it is a department store and there's the assumption that you'd be well versed about the little writing before you actually start hunting for price match. I mean would you automatically expect them to include delivery and warranty in the pricematch?
    • tifo
    • By tifo 7th Feb 11, 5:41 PM
    • 1,186 Posts
    • 262 Thanks
    tifo
    many retailers don't price match and have too many exclusions.

    last year, i wanted Dixons to price match a laptop i saw online (they price match with the retailer) as i wanted to collect the item rather than wait 4-5 days for delivery.

    so i emailed then and waited ... and waited ... for around 4 days. By that time the item had gone up by a large amount and Dixons would not price match at the price it was before, when i first contacted them.

    lesson learnt, forget price match, just buy it when there's an offer !!
    • Orrin
    • By Orrin 7th Feb 11, 5:52 PM
    • 425 Posts
    • 312 Thanks
    Orrin
    It seems reasonable that they are only going to price match if all the conditions (warranty, delivery, installation etc) are the same. This wasn't news to me and from what I remember it's clearly set out in their price match leaflet.

    It's a price match guarantee with small print and exclusions. Who'd have thought it?
    • Lifes Grand Plan
    • By Lifes Grand Plan 7th Feb 11, 6:16 PM
    • 1,038 Posts
    • 992 Thanks
    Lifes Grand Plan
    This is no worse (in fact a damn sight better) than the likes of Dixons / Currys / PC World who do a price match promise but then add an extra letter or number to the product model number so that they can claim it is different...

    I.e. They normally always stick an "a" on the end of the product number
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 7th Feb 11, 6:24 PM
    • 4,288 Posts
    • 3,231 Thanks
    stoneman
    I love John Lewis, their staff are so much knowledgeable than others and really make an effort to make sure the customers are happy without being pushy.
    The price match condition has been in place for years, nothing new here, next case please.
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • DJ Mike
    • By DJ Mike 7th Feb 11, 6:30 PM
    • 237 Posts
    • 212 Thanks
    DJ Mike
    This is an on and off policy with them, from my past experience. How hard they stuck to the fine print when discounting like-for-like electrical goods was down to the friendliness of the person you were dealing with. One or two stuffy sales assistants would tell you the warranties weren't the same while plenty of others would have their heads screwed on straight (and realise keeping the sale was better than losing it!) and just sell to you at that price. Maybe JL have retrained their staff to be more scrutinising - I hope not, and that this is just a few unfortunate sales stories surfacing. It bodes poorly for JL's otherwise excellent customer service if true.
  • dmg24
    Not unfair at all!
    John Lewis are comparing like with like.
    Isn't this what Martin tells us to do when comparing insurance prices?
    Originally posted by Loanranger
    I agree, and I can't believe this is deemed newsworthy!

    Agreed - especially since expensive electronic items like washing machines and TV's will be covered for up to 5-6 years via the Sales of Goods Act - regardless of whether you buy it from John Lewis or another retailer - and regardless of whether they 'officially' have a 1, 2, 3 or 5 year warranty..

    Regards
    Sunil
    Originally posted by gt94sss2
    I have highlighted the key phrase in your post - given the choice of a five year no hassle warranty or having to go to small claims to get a partial refund, I know which I would pick!
  • paulyb2008
    The motto is outdated, but not without merit...
    While the pedants might criticise JL, this motto is outdated and I haven't taken any notice of it for years anyway.

    You might be glad to read that my Samsung LCD TV (with a 5 yr warranty) packed up after 4 years and 10 months. John Lewis repaired the TV, no quibble, without even asking for a receipt as they had a record of the purchase on their customer database. I challenge any other major retailer to offer that kind of service after almost 5 years (apart from richer Sounds of course).

    OK, so JL is not undersold, but it has a right to defend it's premium price for superior customer service; I'm also buying peace of mind, not just a product.
    • Paulgonnabedebtfree
    • By Paulgonnabedebtfree 7th Feb 11, 9:37 PM
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    Paulgonnabedebtfree
    It seems reasonable that they are only going to price match if all the conditions (warranty, delivery, installation etc) are the same. This wasn't news to me and from what I remember it's clearly set out in their price match leaflet.

    It's a price match guarantee with small print and exclusions. Who'd have thought it?
    Originally posted by Orrin
    Indeed, but the way I'm reading it is that they intentionally create the situation where a product can never be an exact equivalent to one sold elsewhere, therefore making any price matching promise totally meaningless. Therefore, the only point in them mentioning it in the first place would be to carry out a deception.
    Small print and exclusions is one thing. Intentionally creating a situation where the small print and exclusions would always apply 100% of the time is quite another (IMO).
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