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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 26th Nov 10, 8:32 AM
    • 1,628Posts
    • 1,255Thanks
    MSE Guy
    Energy price probe launched by regulator
    • #1
    • 26th Nov 10, 8:32 AM
    Energy price probe launched by regulator 26th Nov 10 at 8:32 AM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

Page 1
  • dasilva
    • #2
    • 26th Nov 10, 10:08 AM
    • #2
    • 26th Nov 10, 10:08 AM
    Why don't they publish their findings on the same day?
    We all know what they will be.
    • undaunted
    • By undaunted 26th Nov 10, 10:16 AM
    • 1,862 Posts
    • 964 Thanks
    undaunted
    • #3
    • 26th Nov 10, 10:16 AM
    • #3
    • 26th Nov 10, 10:16 AM
    I was just thinking myself I hope they do a better job of it than the last one (?, ie gas sculpting)
    • Anon
    • By Anon 26th Nov 10, 10:20 AM
    • 13,708 Posts
    • 152,290 Thanks
    Anon
    • #4
    • 26th Nov 10, 10:20 AM
    • #4
    • 26th Nov 10, 10:20 AM
    About time too - the energy companies claim that their rises are due to rises in wholesale prices, yet when prices reduced on the wholesale markets, they didn't bring the prices back down. In addition, they neglect to inform you that they also have big interests in the wholesale markets (selling gas and electricity from their wholesale arm to the retail arm) = win win for them!


    Anon
    • wakeupalarm
    • By wakeupalarm 26th Nov 10, 11:48 AM
    • 738 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    wakeupalarm
    • #5
    • 26th Nov 10, 11:48 AM
    • #5
    • 26th Nov 10, 11:48 AM
    Don't be fooled, this is a sham from the start. They are only doing it to keep themselves occupied and thus keep their own jobs during the recesssion. They all have jobs lined up with the energy companies after their Ofgem stint.
    • davidgmmafan
    • By davidgmmafan 26th Nov 10, 12:31 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 522 Thanks
    davidgmmafan
    • #6
    • 26th Nov 10, 12:31 PM
    • #6
    • 26th Nov 10, 12:31 PM
    "The only question is does Ofgem actually have the teeth to sort out the big six beasts of the gas and electricity world?"

    Not according to BBC's Watchdog, who state Ofgem voluntarily gave up the power to regulate prices. Bravo!
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 26th Nov 10, 12:41 PM
    • 27,830 Posts
    • 13,697 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #7
    • 26th Nov 10, 12:41 PM
    • #7
    • 26th Nov 10, 12:41 PM
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11842686
    • backfoot
    • By backfoot 26th Nov 10, 1:14 PM
    • 2,680 Posts
    • 2,215 Thanks
    backfoot
    • #8
    • 26th Nov 10, 1:14 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Nov 10, 1:14 PM
    As the most inept Regulator, we shouldn't hold out much hope that anything good will come out of this enquiry.

    However, they must realise this themselves and have faced a justified barrage of criticism.You never know this might just be the time that they finally wake up.

    If not,they should pack up their bags and exchange places with Consumer Focus in the Bonfire of the Quangos.
    • wiggers
    • By wiggers 26th Nov 10, 4:08 PM
    • 73 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    wiggers
    • #9
    • 26th Nov 10, 4:08 PM
    Let's see a graph
    • #9
    • 26th Nov 10, 4:08 PM
    I keep reading about different claims that wholesale prices have gone up/down by this percentage since that time and retails have done so-and-so, but it is impossible to judge from these hand-waving numbers just what is going on. So please can someone draw a graph of energy prices, wholesale and retail, to show just what is going on?
    If your outgoings exceed your income, your upkeep will be your downfall.
    -- Moe Howard of The Three Stooges explaining economics to brother Curley
    • wakeupalarm
    • By wakeupalarm 26th Nov 10, 4:52 PM
    • 738 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    wakeupalarm


    Customer bill and other costs appear to be wrongly labelled.


    Last edited by wakeupalarm; 30-11-2010 at 10:31 PM.
    • savers united
    • By savers united 26th Nov 10, 5:00 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    savers united
    2 classic excuses

    When wholesale prices fall energy companies say they cannot reduce prices because they bought the Gas x number of years ago and so we are all using the more expensive Gas.
    Then they finally (2 years later) reduce the prices by a fraction of the fall in wholesale prices.

    Then prices start to rise, energy companies seem to forget that they bought that Gas x number of years ago when prices were rock bottom and magically we are all using the more expensive Gas immediately.

    Another classic - Gas prices track the price of oil with a slight lag, oil has halved in price since highs of 2008 and its still well down at around $80 barrel but Gas prices are rising??? Where's the lag, oil is not even rising.
    • Barneysmom
    • By Barneysmom 26th Nov 10, 5:00 PM
    • 9,463 Posts
    • 24,285 Thanks
    Barneysmom
    I doubt anything will change, it never has that I can remember.
  • PNPSUKNET
    I dont think ofgem can dictate prices, it would be classed as comercial decisions. Its like trying to regulate the price of petrol it wont happen.
    • The Hornet
    • By The Hornet 27th Nov 10, 7:58 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    The Hornet
    Not much use to me and MANY other rural users as I use bulk LPG for cooking/heating. I fail to understand why a small but significant sector of the energy market is being excluded.
    • davidgmmafan
    • By davidgmmafan 27th Nov 10, 11:02 AM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 522 Thanks
    davidgmmafan
    To be honest any discussion of prices always seems to result in people becoming hysterical. If we're going to look at the facts then bring it on. My main concernes when discussing this is we NEVER look at tother countries. We just say we're being ripped off wagh wagh wagh (is that how you spell the sound for a babay crying???). Without anything to compare to this is pretty meaningless. Though it pains me to admit it I can well understand the argument that there are other costs than the wholesale costs. In fact I believe they make up only a proportion on a customers final bill.

    I am very concerned that the expansion of so called renewable energy sources (how can they be sustainable if they make the commodity unaffordable for many people?) is only going to make prices go one way. I've seen figures like 16p per Kwh for electricity generated through solar panels and the like. Well I'm currently paying 9 or 10 pence per Kwh so its obvious what's going to happen there...

    Ofgem is hopeless, so even if this had some merit its pretty much doomed to fail and/or be condemned. Consumer Focus seem to be the most effective consumer body I can recall, and they're facing the axe!
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 27th Nov 10, 5:28 PM
    • 27,830 Posts
    • 13,697 Thanks
    Cardew
    To be honest any discussion of prices always seems to result in people becoming hysterical. If we're going to look at the facts then bring it on. My main concernes when discussing this is we NEVER look at tother countries. We just say we're being ripped off wagh wagh wagh (is that how you spell the sound for a babay crying???). Without anything to compare to this is pretty meaningless. Though it pains me to admit it I can well understand the argument that there are other costs than the wholesale costs. In fact I believe they make up only a proportion on a customers final bill.

    I am very concerned that the expansion of so called renewable energy sources (how can they be sustainable if they make the commodity unaffordable for many people?) is only going to make prices go one way. I've seen figures like 16p per Kwh for electricity generated through solar panels and the like. Well I'm currently paying 9 or 10 pence per Kwh so its obvious what's going to happen there...

    Ofgem is hopeless, so even if this had some merit its pretty much doomed to fail and/or be condemned. Consumer Focus seem to be the most effective consumer body I can recall, and they're facing the axe!
    Originally posted by davidgmmafan
    We(the customers) pay a levy for solar generated electricity and for small systems we pay 42.8p for every kWh so generated.

    The most disturbing feature of the hysteria over gas and electricity prices is that people don't appreciate that the profit per customer per year is not huge - the latest uproar is that profits have gone up from 65 to 90 per customer.

    Whilst that may be too high, it is presented in the media as if we are paying hundreds of pounds more than is reasonable.

    Tesco made IIRC eight times as much profit as BG made last year(their record year) and it hardly gets a mention.
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 28th Nov 10, 9:58 AM
    • 7,811 Posts
    • 13,103 Thanks
    dori2o
    We(the customers) pay a levy for solar generated electricity and for small systems we pay 42.8p for every kWh so generated.

    The most disturbing feature of the hysteria over gas and electricity prices is that people don't appreciate that the profit per customer per year is not huge - the latest uproar is that profits have gone up from 65 to 90 per customer.

    Whilst that may be too high, it is presented in the media as if we are paying hundreds of pounds more than is reasonable.

    Tesco made IIRC eight times as much profit as BG made last year(their record year) and it hardly gets a mention.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    The difference is that I can go to Tesco and buy their own brand food and choose not to buy thier over priced guff.

    Energy however is very different. It is an essential, I have no choice but to buy it at a price that is dictated, a price that is far too high when compared to the wholesale price.

    The simplest option to regulate gas and electricity prices is to take them back under state control, and take away the profit making element from the prices. With no shareholders, Directors etc there is less of a case to make grossly inflated profits.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 28th Nov 10, 10:28 AM
    • 9,196 Posts
    • 2,333 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    Whatever happens - it will be us (the consumer) who ends up out of pocket in the end
    After all - these poor energy company MD's must have their Mercs / Rolls Royces and if they don't have Caribbean Cruises at least twice a year - their Mansions will go to rack and ruin.....

    Am I just being Cynical ?
    I think not.
    The answer is to RE-NATIONALISE ALL the basic utility companies - electricity, gas, water, phones ......
    Last edited by 50Twuncle; 28-11-2010 at 10:31 AM.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 28th Nov 10, 10:58 AM
    • 9,196 Posts
    • 2,333 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    Designed to Confuse - courtesy of SP
    I recently requested SP give me the new rates for my Dual Fuel (Online Energy Saver 4) and rather than a simple "x pence per unit" - They have to try to confuse me by giving me an annual price increase and then go on to offer me so many options - why can't they answer a simple question ?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    I have checked and confirm that your current Service Package is Online Energy Saver 4. - I know this !!
    Unit prices of your current package including VAT as mention below :
    For Electricity:
    Primary charges (First 225 kWh used each quarter) : 16.981 Pence per unit
    Secondary charges ( remaining kWh used each quarter) : 9.631 Pence per unit
    For Gas :
    Primary charges (First 225 kWh used each quarter) : 4.463 Pence per unit
    Secondary charges ( remaining kWh used each quarter) : 3.798 Pence per unit - I know this also
    There are changes of price for Service Package Online Energy Saver 4 .The new prices and discount changes are effective from 25th November 2010. - here we go ....
    The annual price increase will be 25.51. - I requested the rates.
    We offer Online Energy Saver 11 Service Package only to our new customer. - So why mention it ? I have been a SP customer for 3 years
    I would like to inform you that we have introduced new packages and the majority of customers are being given the option to move to one of four alternative products which are Price Tracker October 2011, Capped Price Energy June 2012, Simply Green Energy and Pay In Advance.
    I would request you to check the following products:
    Price Tracker October 2011

    Guaranteed 2% cheaper than British Gas standard monthly direct debit prices until October 2011
    Saving 15 per annum on Dual Fuel
    You will receive one combined bill and a gas and electric discount of 15.00 (inc VAT) each year - Which I already get
    If you choose to go online with this product there is a further discount of 5.25 (inc VAT) for Dual Fuel customers
    Available for Dual Fuel and Electricity Solus

    We may apply cancellation charges inclusive of VAT of 30 for electricity and 20 for gas if you switch to Price Tracker October 2011 but then cancel your supply contract or switch to another tariff before the 30th September 2011. These charges will not be applied if the supply contract is cancelled due to a home move.
    "MAY" apply ?
    Capped Price Energy December 2012 Offer

    With our Capped Price Energy December 2012 Offer the price you pay for your energy units will not rise above the capped prices before December 2012. And what?s more, if our standard monthly Direct Debit prices fall below the capped prices, your prices will fall too.

    In addition to capped prices until December 2012, you can also benefit from:
    Gas & Electricity Offer annual discount of 16.80.
    Online Energy Service annual discount of 5.25 (inc. VAT) for gas and 10.50 (inc. VAT) for electricity.

    We may apply cancellation charges inclusive of VAT of 30 for electricity and 20 for gas if you switch to our Capped Price Energy December 2012 Offer but then cancel your supply contract or switch to another of our tariff(s) before 30th November 2012. These charges will be amended, if there is a change in the VAT rate at any time or times before 30th November 2012, by an amount equivalent to the applicable change in the VAT rate. These charges will not be applied if the supply contact is cancelled due to a home move.

    Simply Green Energy

    Our Simply Green Energy is certified under the Green Energy Scheme
    We will match the amount of electricity you use with energy from a renewable source
    It helps to support community based renewable energy projects
    As a gas and electricity customer you would usually receive a discount, but instead Scottish Power will donate 10.50 to the Green Energy Trust on your behalf.
    Our Simply Green Energy tariff is an online product, as well as supporting the environment you will have no paper bills and have the benefit of managing your account online!
    You will receive a free copy of the Green magazine twice a year
    Online Energy Service annual discount of 5.25 (inc VAT) for gas and 10.50 (inc VAT) for electricity.
    "Green" a nice thought - but not at an increased cost/profit to SP.
    Pay In Advance

    Peace of mind of paying for your energy consumption 1 year in advance
    Receive a 5% discount from our Standard Monthly Direct Debit prices for the duration your initial payment
    Customers with both gas and electric with us will receive one combined bill and a discount of 16.80 (inc VAT) per annum

    We may apply cancellation charges inclusive of VAT of 30 for electricity and 20 for gas if you switch to our Simply Green Energy Offer but then cancel your supply contract or switch to another tariff before 31st May 2011. These charges will not be applied if the supply contract is cancelled due to a home move.
    Again - this "MAY" apply....
    Platinum Fixed Energy January 2014

    Our Platinum Fixed Energy January 2014 Offer provides you with extended levels of cover and protection not only on your energy prices, but also on your gas boiler until January 2014.

    Features & Benefits:

    Fixed energy prices until January 2014
    Your gas and electricity prices are guaranteed not to rise before 31st January 2014.

    HomeComfort Standard Boiler Care
    A boiler breakdown can be more hassle than you think, but with Home Comfort from ScottishPower you don't have to worry , so you can relax in the knowledge your boiler will be working again as soon as possible. Our Home Comfort service provides:
    An annual boiler service and safety check
    Unlimited call outs
    24/7 emergency call centre operating 365 days a year
    All work will be carried out by qualified Gas Safe registered engineers
    Energy efficiency advice to make sure your system is operating efficiently
    48 hour customer satisfaction call-back check

    Wireless electricity monitor
    Be energy aware in the home, and have the information to hand in real-time to make a positive difference towards reducing your carbon footprint and energy bills.
    Got one already
    25% discount off our cavity wall insulation charges.
    Around a third of all the heat lost in an un-insulated home is lost through the walls. Cavity wall insulation is a fantastic way to significantly reduce the amount of energy you need to heat your home and save you money on your fuel bills.

    Convenience
    As a combined gas and electricity customer you will receive one bill and our Gas & Electricity Offer discount of 16.80 (incl.VAT) each year.

    Award winning Online Energy Service
    Save an additional 15.75 per annum (incl.VAT) by choosing to manage your account online.

    It takes about 6 weeks to complete the transfer of your gas and electricity. When this transfer is complete we will write to you to confirm your energy start date. When your start date has been confirmed we will send out:

    Your wireless electricity monitor
    Details of how to arrange a free quotation for cavity wall insulation, together with your discount code
    An appointment letter to carry out your boiler inspection and first service. Your Home Comfort Standard boiler care will not begin until the initial inspection is fully completed.

    And remember, we?re here to help so if you?d like to discuss anything please call us on 0800 027 8484

    Please Note:
    Our Platinum Fixed Energy January 2014 Offer is not available for premises located in the geographic areas of the former public electricity suppliers, Scottish Hydro Electric (area 17) and London Electricity (area 12).
  • Graeme_r
    These Charts say it all - replace ofgem now
    [QUOTE=wakeupalarm;38830096]

    Customer bill and other costs appear to be wrongly labled.


    [We don't need an enquiry to see what has been going on. The big 6 cartel have failed to reduce consumer prices when the wholesale price fell dramatically. Why has it taken the most inept of all Quangos Ofgem to react when they must have known about the data in the charts for many months. Ofgem decided many years ago that they didn't need to regulate consumer prices - the charts show that decision was plainly stupid. Buchanan should be put out to grass and a new energy regulator that regulates consumer prices replacing ofgem. He and his main board cronies are not fit for purpose and should not serve on any future regulatory bodies.
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