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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Lawrence
    'Do you support public spending cuts?' poll discussion
    • #1
    • 13th Sep 10, 2:21 PM
    'Do you support public spending cuts?' poll discussion 13th Sep 10 at 2:21 PM
    Poll between 13-20 September 2010:

    Do you support public spending cuts?


    The govt's in the midst of planning substantial cuts to public spending, including benefits, police, and schools. It argues this is crucial to cut the state's overspending and diminish the deficit.

    The counter argument is this will hit economic growth, and push us back into recession, in turn increasing the deficit.

    In a deliberately stark vote – which side are you on?

    - We need cuts - 6,699 votes (60 %)
    - Don't cut - 4,466 votes (40 %)

    This vote has now closed, but you can still click 'post reply' to discuss below. Thanks

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    Last edited by Former MSE Lawrence; 20-09-2010 at 4:26 PM.
Page 1
  • hugh.mqueen
    • #2
    • 13th Sep 10, 4:45 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Sep 10, 4:45 PM
    If the government does not cut the deficit now then the deficit will keep increasing, the credit rating of our country will be down graded, the cost of borrowing will go up and out country will enter a downward spiral untill we end up like Greece. If we don't accept cuts then the only thing thats going to happen is there's going to be even bigger cuts in the future.
  • dje154
    • #3
    • 13th Sep 10, 5:14 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Sep 10, 5:14 PM
    when you dont get the bins emptied and are waiting ten years for that operation tell me that cuts are a good idea stop chucking away money on foriegn aid charity begins at home
  • carlw
    • #4
    • 13th Sep 10, 5:55 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Sep 10, 5:55 PM
    when you dont get the bins emptied and are waiting ten years for that operation tell me that cuts are a good idea stop chucking away money on foriegn aid charity begins at home
    Originally posted by dje154


    frontline services are not going to be cut so your comment is tosh!

    All that will be cut is the waste in my opinion, cuts they should have been made much sooner. Cuts that we can afford, they may not be good news for everyone and yes there will be an increase in unemployment in the public sector, which will be more expensive in the short term. This shouldn’t be avoided just to keep people in a job. If we are wasting public money we should make cuts, and if we can close a government department that can be replaced by a private sector service so be it. The private sector will soon take up the slack, the deficit will be slashed and we will all be better off in the long run.

    The cuts wont be as bad as the press report anyway, they never are. This is just scare mongering by the opposition. Lets wait and see.
  • Potsdamerplatz
    • #5
    • 13th Sep 10, 6:01 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Sep 10, 6:01 PM
    What a ridiculous and stupid poll which doesn't reflect the whole story. Wouldn't a better way to have had 3 options:

    1.) Do we need cuts?
    2.) Are the cuts announced too much?
    3.) Are the cuts announced just about right?

    As for the guy above who said frontline services won't be cut, the police in certain areas including Strathclyde are making 1 in 4 of their staff redudant. Many of these will be civilian staff but also older policemen who will be taking their pension a few years early.

    The whole country has gone to the dogs.
  • Gareth_Lazelle
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 10, 6:51 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Sep 10, 6:51 AM
    Very difficult question, because of the emotive unasked corollary questions that will cause folks to vote against cuts (leading to very skewed results),

    I'm all for cuts, Ideally we shouldn't have a deficit at all (less debt interest means we can afford more public services in the mid-term),

    But how to cut? And is the current government making the right cuts? Those are tricky questions left unasked...
    - GL
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 14th Sep 10, 6:55 AM
    • 10,896 Posts
    • 9,851 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 10, 6:55 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Sep 10, 6:55 AM
    Yes...

    If its a choice between me paying more tax and us having cuts then cut cut cut...

    Also cut foreign aid/cut quangos/cut government junkets and partying
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
  • lankydave
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 10, 9:38 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Sep 10, 9:38 AM
    There has to be cuts, but they have to be logical. Putting people out of work will not save the country anything. It puts more people on benefits, less money going into the HMRC in Income tax, less money spent in the local community, local shops having to shut down, therefore more people unemployed. And it goes on and on.

    And front line services are being cut, but they are employing more admin to sack the nurses and police. They need to reduce the number of MPs first, as they promised.

    And how did they save money scrapping NHS Direct and rebranding it 111 save money. That must have cost them several think tanks and a rip-off advertising company to promote it. By all accounts NHS Direct was working.
  • fordy
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 10, 10:50 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 10, 10:50 AM
    Cuts should be carefully applied to the benefits sector.

    Start with alcoholics and drug addicts who are claiming sick benefits to avoid work. They should have all the help they need to break the cycle of addiction, but no way should that addiction be funded by benefits.

    16 year olds who aren't in education or already working should be put to work in an "home guard" of sorts. National service if you want to call it that, they will be in PAID EMPLOYMENT, paying tax and NI back into the state, they won't be allowed to roam the streets causing chaos and committing crime.

    If you aren't working and not REALLY trying to get a job, you will have to work in the community for your benefits.

    If someone is genuinely sick and incapable they should be left as they are, not persecuted by some idiot looking to make a name for themselves.

    I know its been said before and it will be said again but its simple common sense.

    How many millions could be saved by doing this? All the parties have attempted this over the years with no real success. Now there is a damn good reason to do it properly and make it work. Too much money is wasted on the benefits sector when it comes to unemployment.
    • SomethingWitty
    • By SomethingWitty 14th Sep 10, 1:40 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    SomethingWitty
    We don't *need* cuts right now. If the deficit really is as large as claimed, cuts could eventually come as the economy grows, not before. However, the economy can only grow with either increased or sustained public expenditure during a recession. The main problem right now isn't the deficit, its the recession, unemployment, and poor economic situation - much wider things in other words

    This recession is a private sector recession. We need a state spending healthy amounts of money to create jobs and sustain the economy. Look at Connaught, the building firm, who are now in administration because of Govenrment cuts. All the suppliers to healthcare, schools, etc, and the people who supply those suppliers, all of whom employ people, will suffer if we cut. YOu just end up putting people out of work, and they in turn can't spend any money on anything, so everyone loses out in the long run.

    Now that private sector demand is shrinking, the state should step in, with big infrastructure projects (, big capital expenditure, and a big kick start to the economy. Then, as the private sector recovers, we can start cutting slowly, when the private sector is strong enough to take up the slack.

    Cutting now is the worst thing we can do. Granted, efficiency savings etc are fair enough, but "cuts" - not for me thankyou. At least, not right now.
  • Kilwinning Bluenose
    There is no choice, cuts have to come. There is no other way of spending at the rates Labour did for 13 years without further increasing debt, further increasing debt interest and then having to cut anyway.
    Failing in my savings journey!

    Scottish, British, Proud
    • LeeSouthEast
    • By LeeSouthEast 14th Sep 10, 1:55 PM
    • 3,768 Posts
    • 2,948 Thanks
    LeeSouthEast
    Yes we need cuts, but not in the way this government seems to be doing them.
    Starting Debt: ~£20,000 01/01/2009. DFD: 20/11/2009
    Do something amazing. GIVE BLOOD.
    • Reluctant_spender
    • By Reluctant_spender 14th Sep 10, 2:47 PM
    • 2,726 Posts
    • 1,291 Thanks
    Reluctant_spender
    We need the cuts it's as simple as that. regardless of who is in power cuts were coming. we can all argue the toss on benefits and foreign aid and the like but frontline services will be cut. Councils will play the political game instead of working together.

    We are all in this mess.
  • srtman
    Over the years the public sector has employed to many people to such a degree that there is more money going out (salaries, pensions etc) than what is coming in(taxes). I tend to compare it to household expediture eg if your wage doesnt cover all the bills you are in trouble so you have to make sacrifices. Cut back on spending, go out less etc etc
    • tr8
    • By tr8 14th Sep 10, 5:28 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tr8
    Cuts are the only option you cannot spend what you dont have.
    Benifits should only be paid in tokens, and if you are unemployed mustdo at least 2 days a week working for the comunity, whether that is help an old person tidy there garden or picking litter from the beach, woods etc. Nothing is for FREE. Put a Cap on civil servant pension and wages about 8 times lowest paid, I think thats to high but others will complain
  • Ali34
    The conservative government (not I did not say coalition!) is conducting an idealogical destruction of the state. The deficit is no more than a smoke screen to justify this action. All of the rhetoric and statistics only ever show half of the equation. The current deficit, as a proportion of GDP is actually the same as it was in 1993 and is not significantly different to what it has been over the last 15 to 20 years.

    The structural part of the deficit (i.e the money used to bale out the banks) is very likely to be repaid and may realise a profit for the country. As an example for every penny, yes penny, that RBS shares are above the acquistion price of 49p, the country will make £900m.

    Repayment of this structural deficit means that the residual deficit will be better than it has been for the last 20 years, yet we are still listening to the sensationalist rhetoric of the political parties and we are all being conned.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 14th Sep 10, 8:13 PM
    • 10,896 Posts
    • 9,851 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    He also refers to the pending execution of the rescue team by the 'Death of a Thousand Cuts' by saying 'the British are used to cuts' referring to the cutbacks in Government spending before and probably during the time of the filming


    An excerpt from Carry on up the Kyber with the late great Kenneth Williams made in 1968.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carry_On..._Up_the_Khyber


    you see..the British ARE used to cuts...
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • CapricornLass
    • By CapricornLass 14th Sep 10, 9:22 PM
    • 261 Posts
    • 1,049 Thanks
    CapricornLass
    TR8, could I give you a couple of facts regarding civil servants pay and pensions?

    1. Did you realise that almost 2/3rd of all the civil servants in the country earn less than £25K? And that 48% earn less than £18K? The public sector pensions only pay out 1/80 for each year of employment, and their members have to pay contributions into that, sometimes as much as 6%. I let you do the maths, but the results are hardly gold plated, are they, even if you complete 40 years. And most people have less years service than that.

    2. The main public sector pension scheme was overhauled five years ago to ensure that it was affordable, and that it would continue to be so in the next fifty years. Who said the final results were affordable? HM Treasury.

    3. What about all of the unpaid/evaded tax - mainly by the likes of David Cameron's millionaire cronies? The total outstanding would make a HUGE dent in the national debt - if it didn't clear it altogether. (The main reason is that the Inland Revenue has shed its staff, so it hasn't enough people to collect it - nor, for that matter, to sort out the current mess that the new computer system has put them into.)

    4. This is the one that I really would like an answer for. Could you please explain why civil servants are to be singled out for having their pensions capped? i seem to remember a certain person retiring from RBS on £750k pension A YEAR after almost bring the bank to its knees and which civil servants (as taxpayers) had to bail out. Why should he and his ilk be protected?
    • mrprosser
    • By mrprosser 14th Sep 10, 10:38 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    mrprosser
    Yes...

    If its a choice between me paying more tax and us having cuts then cut cut cut...

    Also cut foreign aid/cut quangos/cut government junkets and partying
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    The problem of course is that your (and everyone else's) tax burden is going to increase, and still there are going to be cuts.

    Do you really expect VAT to go back down once the national debt is significantly reduced?
    • Arenasarenas
    • By Arenasarenas 14th Sep 10, 10:56 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Arenasarenas
    Tax dodging
    Well we are clearly back to selfish politics. I would be proud to pay more tax to help out the country and avoid cutting public services, I can afford it and so can lots of very rich folk that the Torys are helping to stay rich. Its sad that we have become a nation of tax dodgers, everybody looking out for themselves and not supporting each other - what nice people we are!
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