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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 26th Aug 10, 3:36 PM
    • 1,628Posts
    • 1,255Thanks
    MSE Guy
    MSE News: Beat the Lloyds Banking Group complaint rejection spiral
    • #1
    • 26th Aug 10, 3:36 PM
    MSE News: Beat the Lloyds Banking Group complaint rejection spiral 26th Aug 10 at 3:36 PM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "The giant upheld just 12% of banking complaints during the first half of 2010 but angry customers shouldn't give up ..."

    Last edited by MSE Guy; 26-08-2010 at 3:44 PM.
Page 1
  • atsoc15
    • #2
    • 26th Aug 10, 4:15 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Aug 10, 4:15 PM
    would be really interesting to know how many of these 'upheld' complaints actually resulted in customers getting what they wanted.

    Or how many were actually charges and fees complaints that are upheld but pay outs given

    also would like to see if this differs across the different brands
    Last edited by atsoc15; 26-08-2010 at 4:17 PM.
  • Premier
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 10, 6:59 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 10, 6:59 AM
    Lloyds TSB upheld just 12% of banking complaints from its customers during the first half of the year, figures show today.
    ...
    When consumers take their complaint to the independent Financial Ombudsman Service, it upholds 51% in customers' favour against the bank ...

    Lloyds stresses the high rejection rate is distorted by the vast number of unauthorised overdraft charges cases, which were dismissed after banks won the landmark test case on fees last November. The bank points out it upheld 54% of insurance cases during the period.
    ...
    I didn't understand this at first, but now I get it.

    It's amazing what you can do with statistics isn't it?

    What this implies is that whilst only 12% of complaints are initially upheld by the bank, over 50% eventually get upheld if the complaint is passed to the ombudsman.
    That is clearly not what happens. It's only 51% of those complaints that the ombudsman actually sees that is upheld.

    What's important to remember is that not all those 88% of initially rejected complaints are then passed to the ombudsman.

    What actually could be happening is:

    Out of 100 complaints, only 12 are initially upheld by the bank.
    Only 2 of the 88 rejected complaints are passed to the ombudsman, probably those who have a genuine gripe. 1 of those complaints (50%) gets upheld (i.e. now a total of 13 out of the original hundred, or 13%)

    Of course, it would be totally wrong to believe that if the other 86% who probably didn't believe their claim enough (perhaps after initially submitting it before the result of the later Supreme Court ruling) to even bother complaining to the ombudsman would also get a 50% success rate. In fact of those 86% who decided against forwarding the claim to the ombudsman, the success rate would probably have been about zero if they had decided to do so.

    But well spun!
    Last edited by Premier; 27-08-2010 at 9:56 AM.
    "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 2010
  • opinions4u
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 10, 7:09 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 10, 7:09 AM
    I didn't undserstand this at first, but now I get it.

    It's amazing what you can do with statistics isn't it?

    What this inplies is that whilst only 12% of complaints are initially upheld by the bank, over 50% eventually get upheld if the complaint is passed to the ombudsman.
    That is clearly not what happens. It's only 51% of those complaints that the ombudsman actually sees that is upheld.

    What's important to remember is that not all those 88% of initially rejected complaints are then passed to the ombudsman.

    What actually could be happening is:

    Out of 100 complaints, only 12 are initially upheld by the bank.
    Only 2 of the 88 rejected complaints are passed to the ombudsman, probably those who have a genuine gripe. 1 of those complaints gets upheld (i.e. now a total of 13 out of the original hundred, or 13%)

    Of course, it would be totally wrong to believe that if the other 86% who probably didn't believe their claim enough (perhaps after initially submitting it as a result of the later Supreme Court ruling) to even bother complaining to the ombudsman would also get a 50% success rate. In fact of those 86% who decided against forwarding the claim to the ombudman, the success rate would probably have been about zero if they had decided to do so.

    But well spun!
    Originally posted by Premier
    Possible.

    Or alternatively the LTSB brand has a "straight bat" approach to complaints, rejecting the vast majortiy regardless of substance. Joe Public, on the whole, simply can't be bothered with the hassle of the FOS and the bank gets away with it.

    Not sure where the truth lies.

    It's also possible that a bank can settle a complaint without upholding it. Here's 20, no admission of liability, for example.

    You would think the FSA and FOS would understand the differences in complaint handling culture not just between banks, but also within LBG where HBOS seem to approach things differently to LTSB.
    • miserable_ol_so_n_so
    • By miserable_ol_so_n_so 27th Aug 10, 8:13 AM
    • 492 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    miserable_ol_so_n_so
    • #5
    • 27th Aug 10, 8:13 AM
    • #5
    • 27th Aug 10, 8:13 AM
    I had my complaint rejected many years ago by LTSB as well as Abbey. I paid them back for ignoring my concerns. I stopped using the banks, kept my accounts open with a balance of just a pound or so. They keep sending me statements etc at regular intervals. Must have cost them a fortune! I am well satisfied that they have spent all this money, never made a penny from me from that day on and in the process provided much needed business to Royal Mail!
    ....Illegitimi non carborundum

    ...don't let the illegitimate ones grind you down....
    • black taxi
    • By black taxi 27th Aug 10, 1:49 PM
    • 1,810 Posts
    • 6,329 Thanks
    black taxi
    • #6
    • 27th Aug 10, 1:49 PM
    • #6
    • 27th Aug 10, 1:49 PM
    there new 5 monthly charges for planned o/d starting dec is worth a complaint
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  • opinions4u
    • #7
    • 27th Aug 10, 2:47 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Aug 10, 2:47 PM
    there new 5 monthly charges for planned o/d starting dec is worth a complaint
    Originally posted by black taxi
    Pointless complaints like that I can understand being rejected out of hand.

    Instead of complaining, use your consumer power and do your business elsewhere.
  • izools
    • #8
    • 27th Aug 10, 3:58 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Aug 10, 3:58 PM
    Pointless complaints like that I can understand being rejected out of hand.

    Instead of complaining, use your consumer power and do your business elsewhere.
    Originally posted by opinions4u
    Or don't use your overdraft... I don't (and by god if I let myself could I do some damage! But I won't)
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  • tryingtogetsolvent
    • #9
    • 28th Aug 10, 10:04 AM
    • #9
    • 28th Aug 10, 10:04 AM
    there new 5 monthly charges for planned o/d starting dec is worth a complaint
    Originally posted by black taxi
    Lloyd's have a dedicated number and staff just to deal with complaints about the new overdraft charges so obviously they were expecting it to be unpopular.
    I've found with Lloyd's they always turn down your first complaint but as long as you keep at it and don't give up eventually they'll give in and at least make you a reasonable offer of compensation.I've had a few "here's 40, go away" letters from them
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  • alfchild
    how can they say though that unpaid fees at 20 were a justified amount but dropping it to 10????
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