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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 9th Mar 10, 11:15 AM
    • 1,628Posts
    • 1,255Thanks
    MSE Guy
    MSE News: Npower cuts gas prices by 7%
    • #1
    • 9th Mar 10, 11:15 AM
    MSE News: Npower cuts gas prices by 7% 9th Mar 10 at 11:15 AM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "The drop in typical costs follows cuts announced by British Gas and Scottish & Southern Energy and Eon this year ..."


    Read the full story:
    Npower cuts gas prices by 7%

Page 1
    • notbritishgas
    • By notbritishgas 9th Mar 10, 11:55 AM
    • 2,172 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    notbritishgas
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 10, 11:55 AM
    Shafted again!
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 10, 11:55 AM
    When Npower last reduced their prices, I think about last March or April they did not reduce my tariff (SoL 10). Now it looks as if they have done the same again and excluded all of the online tariffs.
    So thats two reductions getting headline news with a lot of their customers not benefitting.
    Looks like my ID will be changing to "notbritishgas or npower"!!
    • kindofagilr
    • By kindofagilr 9th Mar 10, 12:14 PM
    • 6,709 Posts
    • 22,725 Thanks
    kindofagilr
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 10, 12:14 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 10, 12:14 PM
    Guessing thats not me either, I just changed to a online tarriff!
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  • oakhouse13
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 10, 1:09 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 10, 1:09 PM
    All consumers need to join together and cut out all the churning and commission being paid out by energy compnanies to middlemen playing games and campaign with Ofgem for a few transparent tariffs that benefit all consumers with simple accurate bills.
    • davidgmmafan
    • By davidgmmafan 9th Mar 10, 4:18 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 522 Thanks
    davidgmmafan
    • #5
    • 9th Mar 10, 4:18 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Mar 10, 4:18 PM
    I recall reading an article a few weeks (maybe even months ago) saying online tariffs are 2-300 cheaper than the standard prices for the average customer. I'm on SOL17 so I won't get a reduction, but then I'm already saving a fortune by being on this tariff so I can't really grumble.

    Also if I leave before March 2011 I'd have to pay 20 per fuel cancellation fee. Again not a feature I'm mad on but this was my choice. If there is some amazing unforseen reduction then I would take the hit and change.

    I don't understand people moaning about fixed prices, unless they were forced into them, its like mortgage its a chance you take.

    Oakhouse register for some cashback website and you can get the commission
  • Plushchris
    • #6
    • 9th Mar 10, 4:50 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Mar 10, 4:50 PM
    I am in no way defending Npower or British gas here but my thoughts are that by going onto an online tariff you are saving quite a lot of money in the first place, those of you that have signed up to Npower in the last six months have effectively got this drop in prices early so you have been on lower rates from the time you switched.

    Now they have lowered the unit rates on standard tariffs the "Really great cheap rates" you were getting are now just "Cheap rates" but they are still significantly lower than the standard rates even after the drop in prices.
    Missing Tesco R&R since Feb '07 & now a "Tesco veteran" apparently!
  • PNPSUKNET
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 10, 5:06 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Mar 10, 5:06 PM
    Think the reason why companys charge so much to those that pay, is for the ones that refuse to pay and just raise disputes just to avaid payment and comit fraud giving false details . Companys after all have targets to meet finance wise. Anyone work in the industry confirm this?
  • Viper_7
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 10, 5:08 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Mar 10, 5:08 PM
    What about the Electricity prices?
    When are these being lowered.

    As Npower state when there is a rise in wholesale gas prices, it impacts electricity cost as a large percentage of Electric comes from gas powered generation. So this should drop accordingly. Ohhh a flying pig...

    As per usual, this delay in reducing prices is "due to still supplying customer with gas bought when prices were high) sure..6 months later...
    When the wholesale price goes up, consumer prices rises follow in a flash, when naturally they are still supplying customers with gas purchased when prices were low.
  • Viper_7
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 10, 5:10 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Mar 10, 5:10 PM
    Think the reason why companys charge so much to those that pay, is for the ones that refuse to pay and just raise disputes just to avaid payment and comit fraud giving false details . Companys after all have targets to meet finance wise. Anyone work in the industry confirm this?
    Originally posted by PNPSUKNET
    Yes this is true, but true across most industries.

    Car insurance for example, it's also covering all the victims of the uninsured etc.
    • magyar
    • By magyar 9th Mar 10, 7:58 PM
    • 18,389 Posts
    • 30,446 Thanks
    magyar
    As per usual, this delay in reducing prices is "due to still supplying customer with gas bought when prices were high) sure..6 months later...
    Originally posted by Viper_7
    The market for gas is actually about three years out.
    Says James, in my opinion, there's nothing in this world
    Beats a '52 Vincent and a red headed girl
    • davidgmmafan
    • By davidgmmafan 9th Mar 10, 9:45 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 522 Thanks
    davidgmmafan
    I am in no way defending Npower or British gas here but my thoughts are that by going onto an online tariff you are saving quite a lot of money in the first place, those of you that have signed up to Npower in the last six months have effectively got this drop in prices early so you have been on lower rates from the time you switched.

    Now they have lowered the unit rates on standard tariffs the "Really great cheap rates" you were getting are now just "Cheap rates" but they are still significantly lower than the standard rates even after the drop in prices.
    Originally posted by Plushchris
    I totally agree, as above 2-300 for an average user saving online. This reduction works out about 50 over the year so you'd be mad to be on the standard tariff but 95 % of people are. I know its not easy or straigh forward, and not everyone has the internet, but the majority of people are missing out on a massive saving.
    • thor
    • By thor 10th Mar 10, 1:36 AM
    • 5,290 Posts
    • 1,894 Thanks
    thor
    The market for gas is actually about three years out.
    Originally posted by magyar
    Really that long? So if wholesale prices went up now we should not see the corresponding retail increase until 2013. Somehow I doubt that will happen. As thye have been getting away with it so brazenly I reckon the lag when going up will be a handful of months while when prices come down it will take years(and be smaller).
    • magyar
    • By magyar 10th Mar 10, 6:31 AM
    • 18,389 Posts
    • 30,446 Thanks
    magyar
    Really that long? So if wholesale prices went up now we should not see the corresponding retail increase until 2013. Somehow I doubt that will happen. As thye have been getting away with it so brazenly I reckon the lag when going up will be a handful of months while when prices come down it will take years(and be smaller).
    Originally posted by thor
    It's not quite as simple as that, because you wouldn't buy your whole volume three years out, you'd buy maybe 25% three years out, 25% one year out, 25% a month out and then the rest in the month of supply. This is a process called hedging which means that the overall energy price is 'smoothed'.

    The other complicating factor with gas is its interplay with electricity; since gas is sold to customers as fuel but is also fuel for many electric generating stations.

    I'm not particularly defending the companies here: merely pointing out the situation is far, far more complex than most people think.
    Says James, in my opinion, there's nothing in this world
    Beats a '52 Vincent and a red headed girl
    • mattcanary
    • By mattcanary 10th Mar 10, 7:20 AM
    • 4,089 Posts
    • 3,527 Thanks
    mattcanary
    So why do you they put their prices up immediately (or almost immediately) when the wholesale prices go up, but take ages to adjust their prices when the wholesale price goes down?. Hedging or not, they are ripping off customers. If they bought at different prices, they could also hold off increasing their prices to their customers if they had any ethics whatsoever.
    I'm sorry magyar, but your explanation defies all logic.
    • SwanJon
    • By SwanJon 10th Mar 10, 7:26 AM
    • 2,399 Posts
    • 945 Thanks
    SwanJon
    It's probably a lot more complicated than even Magyar's expalanation.

    A few people have mentioned that domestic prices went up 'almost immediately', but I'm a bit lazy - can someone point this out to me? (graphs please)

    Put yourself in their shoes:
    Situation A - prices are rising, and you believe that this will continue. Do you buy lots now at current prices, or some now, and some later?
    Situation B - prices are falling, and you believe this will continue. Do you buy lots now at current prices, or some now and some later?
    • mattcanary
    • By mattcanary 10th Mar 10, 8:04 AM
    • 4,089 Posts
    • 3,527 Thanks
    mattcanary
    But most of the supply would already be with the utility providers anyway if they hedge - meaning only a small proportion would be purchased at the higher price when the wholesale price goes up.
  • gmang
    I'm with npower and got an email from them this morning.

    Hello Mr Powell
    We've dropped our standard gas prices for the average customer by around 7%*
    which means our domestic gas customers will see a reduction averaging 50 on their gas bills. These cuts will take effect from 26 March 2010.

    All well and good, but I'm not Mr Powell!
    • SwanJon
    • By SwanJon 10th Mar 10, 1:57 PM
    • 2,399 Posts
    • 945 Thanks
    SwanJon
    But most of the supply would already be with the utility providers anyway if they hedge - meaning only a small proportion would be purchased at the higher price when the wholesale price goes up.
    Originally posted by mattcanary
    Sorry, I'm lost.
    Most of what supply?
    What I tried to say above was that if you saw the prices climbing, you would buy even more in advance than normal - it's not as if they need to store it so are limited by storage volume.
    • magyar
    • By magyar 10th Mar 10, 2:31 PM
    • 18,389 Posts
    • 30,446 Thanks
    magyar
    So why do you they put their prices up immediately (or almost immediately) when the wholesale prices go up, but take ages to adjust their prices when the wholesale price goes down?. Hedging or not, they are ripping off customers. If they bought at different prices, they could also hold off increasing their prices to their customers if they had any ethics whatsoever.
    I'm sorry magyar, but your explanation defies all logic.
    Originally posted by mattcanary
    Well, the explanation is the truth - logical or otherwise.

    I agree with JonSwan, I'd like to see some evidence of this 'immediate price rises'. Hedging means that companies should be able to keep prices low for some time.

    One point to bear in mind the spot price market is up and down like a yo-yo. Individuals do not want to be exposed to this sort of market risk: so there has to be an element of 'smoothing'.

    Having said all that - of course there is an element of profiteering; there would be, these are private companies. But I don't think there's a massive element of this. In practice residential margins are very, very low.
    Says James, in my opinion, there's nothing in this world
    Beats a '52 Vincent and a red headed girl
    • davidgmmafan
    • By davidgmmafan 10th Mar 10, 3:53 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 522 Thanks
    davidgmmafan
    Exactly there are tracker tariffs available, but I wouldn't fancy one.
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