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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 29th Jan 10, 11:34 AM
    • 1,628Posts
    • 1,255Thanks
    MSE Guy
    MSE News: Clampdown on cowboy clampers revealed by Government
    • #1
    • 29th Jan 10, 11:34 AM
    MSE News: Clampdown on cowboy clampers revealed by Government 29th Jan 10 at 11:34 AM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "Motorists could soon challenge unfair wheel clamping through independent tribunals, the Government has announced today ..."

Page 1
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 29th Jan 10, 12:30 PM
    • 27,012 Posts
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    peter_the_piper
    • #2
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:30 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:30 PM
    Important questions arise which will only become clearer in time.
    1) Who runs the tribunal and pays for it? What teeth will it have?
    2)Will the law of contract be overturned or will it still have a place? If still in place what is the point of a tribunal.?
    3)What regs will clampers have to follow? What enforcement will there be to ensure they cough up?
    4) What will be the position of landowners who at present are also liable?
    5)What is there going to be in place to prevent clampers from morphing to get out of paying?
    6) Will there be insistence on non cash payment to stop them taking the money and running?
    7) Will they be responsible for damage to vehicles?
    I'm sure there's a lot more but that's a start.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • Coblcris
    • #3
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:39 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:39 PM
    Forcing clampers to be bonded as a condition of license would be useful.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 29th Jan 10, 12:44 PM
    • 9,026 Posts
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    trisontana
    • #4
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:44 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:44 PM
    Forcing clampers to be bonded as a condition of license would be useful.
    Originally posted by Coblcris
    Outlawing private clamping in the England (as it has been in Scotland) would be even more useful.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • greenface
    • By greenface 29th Jan 10, 12:48 PM
    • 4,738 Posts
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    greenface
    • #5
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:48 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Jan 10, 12:48 PM
    whats in it for the government
    hard as nails on the internet . wimp in the real world
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 29th Jan 10, 1:58 PM
    • 27,012 Posts
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    peter_the_piper
    • #6
    • 29th Jan 10, 1:58 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Jan 10, 1:58 PM
    taxes, taxes and more taxes.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jan 10, 9:41 PM
    • 72,157 Posts
    • 84,464 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 29th Jan 10, 9:41 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Jan 10, 9:41 PM
    whats in it for the government
    Originally posted by greenface

    Money (as always), publicity and 'positive' things for their chinless wonder candidates to crow about before the election.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jan 10, 10:20 PM
    • 72,157 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 29th Jan 10, 10:20 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Jan 10, 10:20 PM
    Might be good for some MSEers and pepipoo posters near enough to Enfield to go along to this after all we are all 'employed in a parking/clamping advice capacity' (albeit voluntarily and not on the side of the clampers...).

    Just time to register your interest in attending:

    (quoted directly from parkingreview.co.uk/news):

    SIA backs national immobiliser meeting
    6 Jan 2010 | Issue Online | Events > The parking calendar

    The fifth Vehicle Immobiliser Network meeting will be held in Enfield on Tuesday 16 March. The meeting is being organised and facilitated by Newline* Securities with the full support of the Security Industry Authority (SIA).
    The event is an opportunity for those working in the vehicle immobilisation sector to engage with the SIA and others in their industry. Delegates will be able to discuss and explore issues about the industry and regulation.
    The event forms part of the SIA’s stakeholder engagement strategy and follows the successes of the meetings held in January and November 2008, and March and September 2009.
    If you would like to attend the meeting, which is free of charge, please visit www.the-sia.org.uk/vi-network to register your interest by 5 February.




    * P.S. I have mentioned before that Newline were recently kicked out of BPA membership (also reported on Parking Review website).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jan 10, 10:27 PM
    • 72,157 Posts
    • 84,464 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 29th Jan 10, 10:27 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Jan 10, 10:27 PM
    Another article from Parking Review website (in which the CAB are quoted as saying they would support a ban on clamping if the appeals process was unfair):

    QUOTE
    The Citizens Advice Bureau is calling for more focused regulations on unfair practices by private parking companies. In the three years from April 2006 to March 2009 complaints to the bureau about parking based problems in England and Wales rose by 52%.
    Complaints concerning clamping firms have increased from 8,514 in 2005-06 to 12,900 in 2008-09. Most cases included mention of inadequate signage warning of clamping risks and the charges; or unreasonable additional charges being applied.
    Common grievances were the speed of clamping and subsequent towing away of the vehicle, and the time it takes to release a vehicle afterwards.
    Other objections included failure to acknowledge parking permits and blue badges; the difficulty of determining the legitimacy of the clampers, and the lack of a complaints and appeals process and procedure.
    David Harker, Citizens Advice Bureau’s chief executive, said: “There is a serious imbalance of power between car owners and private parking companies. The objective of those who demand payment seems to be to make money, not to ensure fair parking. Furthermore, there is currently no right for consumers to appeal fines or seek redress.
    “The government has said they are planning to do something about this issue. We want proper regulation in this sector that the parking public can understand and can see is fair.”
    The charity wants the current regulator for the industry the Security Industry Authority (SIA) to be given more powers so that, as well as licensing, they can also deal with companies found to be operating unfairly. It also wants the SIA to be able to demand that firms return money to those they have overcharged.

    “We consider that if the industry can’t be regulated in a way that the public can see is fair, transparent, reasonable and proportionate then Citizens Advice believes there should be a ban on private clamping, which is already the case in Scotland,” said Harker.

    QUOTE




    BUT!
    Am I reading this right?

    The CAB thinks that the SIA would be the best bet to act fairly as an independent regulator? The same SIA which is in cahoots with a BPA-banned clamping firm at their planned immobilisers' meeting, where they will discuss 'issues about the industry and regulation'...?!

    wtf?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 29-01-2010 at 10:35 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • anewman
    • By anewman 29th Jan 10, 10:33 PM
    • 8,785 Posts
    • 6,259 Thanks
    anewman
    SIA backs national immobiliser meeting
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Would be simply amazing if some people go to that meeting, highlight the status of the host company with the BPA, and put forward a different point of view, while being cool-headed and rational about it. Even better if there were some TV cameras and some heavies caught on camera taking a dislike to people who don't share their views (like on rogue traders). Hope this is posted on Pepipoo somewhere

    Oh yeah, and I would seriously donate cash to buy a clamp if it were to be accidentally placed on some delegate's cars Give them a new point of view on clamping when they want to be on their way home.
    Last edited by anewman; 29-01-2010 at 10:36 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Jan 10, 10:49 PM
    • 72,157 Posts
    • 84,464 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Found another relevant interesting news article on good old Parking Review:

    QUOTE
    Which? wants action on clamping

    8 Sep 2009 | Issue 210 | News > Clamping





    Research by Which? magazine indicates that there is a lack of clarity or consistency over the signage posted by private clamping companies. During July it surveyed parking conditions on roads within 500 metres of a rail station in London’s Zone 4.
    Release charges across the research area varied from a flat fee of 100 for any contravention to 360 for being towed away, reports the magazine. In addition, 2,388 members of the Which? online panel completed a survey which revealed that 63% had successfully appealed against private parking fines via the small claims court.
    Which? responded to the Home Office’s recent consultation on vehicle immobilisation.

    We support the government’s aim of greater regulation of the sector, but want it to cover tickets for parking on private land,” it said “We’re calling for minimum standards on private parking signs and costs, rigorous monitoring of enforcement companies and independent appeals process.”


    QUOTE
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • James_N
    • By James_N 30th Jan 10, 9:31 AM
    • 1,005 Posts
    • 917 Thanks
    James_N
    Scotland
    The Scottish Assembly - who are not entirely stupid - ruled clamping by private firms in Scotland illegal.

    What were the reasons? Are these reasons not as applicable to the rest of the UK?

    Why can't we have the same in England and Wales?
    Under no circumstances may any part of my postings be used, quoted, repeated, transferred or published by any third party in ANY medium outside of this website without express written permission. Thank you.
  • kwaks
    The Scottish Assembly - who are not entirely stupid - ruled clamping by private firms in Scotland illegal.

    What were the reasons? Are these reasons not as applicable to the rest of the UK?

    Why can't we have the same in England and Wales?
    Originally posted by James_N
    I am afraid you give the Scottish Assembly too much credit. Twas a Judge who put this extortion to the sword

    Black v Carmichael 1992 SCCR 709
  • Paranoid
    Clampdown on Clampers
    Stories about the innefective Security Industry Authority, The useless British Parking Association. And the DVLA with it's huge loss of Registeration Documents and supplying electronic links to villains seem to go on for ever.

    As suspected, and reported by other posters. new measures to control this "industry" are clearly not going to be effective and nothing but tinkering with the (lack) of regulation
  • kidcole
    [QUOTE=Coupon-mad;29375901]Might be good for some MSEers and pepipoo posters near enough to Enfield to go along to this after all we are all 'employed in a parking/clamping advice capacity' (albeit voluntarily and not on the side of the clampers...).

    unfortunately, you have to be invited to the meeting
    • svlpacker
    • By svlpacker 3rd Feb 10, 11:04 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    svlpacker
    What about the land owner?
    I live on a development in London which is not gated, so we've had big problems with people using it as a free car park, often to the point were there wasn't sufficient space for residents to park their vehicles.

    3 months ago we brought in a clamping company and now there are no problems with non-resident parking, and I can park my car near my flat instead of having to leave it on the main road.

    So for me, clamping has been great !!
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 3rd Feb 10, 11:13 AM
    • 27,012 Posts
    • 37,264 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    I live on a development in London which is not gated, so we've had big problems with people using it as a free car park, often to the point were there wasn't sufficient space for residents to park their vehicles.

    3 months ago we brought in a clamping company and now there are no problems with non-resident parking, and I can park my car near my flat instead of having to leave it on the main road.

    So for me, clamping has been great !!
    Originally posted by svlpacker
    Glad to hear they have sorted the parking problem. I hope that, when the day comes as it inevitably will, when the permit drops onto the floor or you forget to put it on that they use common sense and not clamp a resident.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • ashleypride
    • By ashleypride 3rd Feb 10, 2:10 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 690 Thanks
    ashleypride

    So for me, clamping has been great !!
    Originally posted by svlpacker
    Clamping isn't good for anyone apart from the clampers themselves. I've seen this so many times, once they've 'solved' the parking problem, they'll have to get a little more sneaky to get any revenue. They'll clamp you if you haven't got a tax disc displayed, or for your car being in a 'unroad' worthy condition. Your mates will get clamped when they park there for a minute to pop a card through your door.
    When the time comes and you are clamped, good luck trying to argue with the bullies and thugs. Good luck with the compaines fake appeals process, good luck taking the clampers to court and then realizing they have wound up and done a runner.

    Clamping & towing by a private company is extortion and theft plain and simple.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Feb 10, 4:21 PM
    • 72,157 Posts
    • 84,464 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I live on a development in London which is not gated, so we've had big problems with people using it as a free car park, often to the point were there wasn't sufficient space for residents to park their vehicles.

    3 months ago we brought in a clamping company and now there are no problems with non-resident parking, and I can park my car near my flat instead of having to leave it on the main road.

    So for me, clamping has been great !!
    Originally posted by svlpacker


    Spot the troll, don't feed it.

    If not a troll then why the heck not just put a gate there?

    Why invite a pack of hated and detested clamping parasite knuckle-dragging neanderthals to crawl all over your land, just waiting until one of your visitors or yourself makes a minor parking bay error or the permit falls into the footwell.

    It will happen, clampers do not care about who they clamp or the legalities, it is all about money. I know of NO exceptions so yes, I will tar them all with the same brush.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • anewman
    • By anewman 3rd Feb 10, 4:27 PM
    • 8,785 Posts
    • 6,259 Thanks
    anewman
    Why invite a pack of hated and detested clamping parasite knuckle-dragging neanderthals to crawl all over your land, just waiting until one of your visitors or yourself makes a minor parking bay error or the permit falls into the footwell.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Sadly I'm sure the reason has to do with money.

    Clamping company cost = 0 (they make their money from clamping people and towing them).

    Putting up a gate with a decent entry system and maintaining it = (ok not really sure on cost but I guess it would be at least 1000 with costs year on year). People are all too happy to pay 800+ a month for their poncy yuppie flat, but when it comes to clubbing together to stump up under a tenner a month to pay for a gate they aren't interested.

    Like you say, I am sure people are all for it until they get clamped themselves, and because it's only one or two people in the whole street who have their permit fall into the footwell no-one else gives a crap about them, so long as it doesn't happen to them and they can keep their wallet in their pocket.
    Last edited by anewman; 03-02-2010 at 4:47 PM. Reason: some additions
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