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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 30th Sep 09, 5:10 PM
    • 1,628Posts
    • 1,255Thanks
    MSE Guy
    MSE News: Childcare voucher tax breaks may be axed
    • #1
    • 30th Sep 09, 5:10 PM
    MSE News: Childcare voucher tax breaks may be axed 30th Sep 09 at 5:10 PM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "Low and middle-income parents will be offered free childcare places for two-year-olds under new Government proposals ..."


    Last edited by Former MSE Dan; 01-10-2009 at 8:52 AM.
Page 1
  • SarahNeedle1872
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 09, 7:07 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Sep 09, 7:07 PM
    So if there is no tax break on Childcare Vouchers, is there actually any point to them?:confused:
    'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars' - Oscar Wilde
    • TBeckett100
    • By TBeckett100 30th Sep 09, 8:07 PM
    • 4,452 Posts
    • 3,758 Thanks
    TBeckett100
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:07 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:07 PM
    Again "low" and "middle" income earners win.

    Whilst I may be fortunate to pay 40% to the tax man each month, where is my reward?

    I am ineligible for childrens tax credit because i earn too much and now this little benefit is being removed.

    It is time we have a government who looked at higher earners and instead of milking them as cash cows, they should show some gratitude. Maybe a little bonus at the end of the year. 20% off a new car...

    Earning good money seems to be a bad habit. Perhaps I will give it all up and stack shelves. No stress and as much credits as I can handle.

    I am not getting at the low to middle earners, I have been there, but society is wrong. Let everyone benefit and give people a reason to excel themselves.
    Last edited by TBeckett100; 30-09-2009 at 8:09 PM.
  • Steve40
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:28 PM
    • #4
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:28 PM
    typical' already battered and bruised the government kick the population again.
  • MUNCHKIN123
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:31 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:31 PM
    The long school holidays mean that many parents are forced to pay for childcare - even when their children are of school age. A good way of doing this has been via childcare vouchers. You can contribute via your salary regularly - save by not paying ni and tax....and help meet the cost associated with long school holidays.

    My husband and I moved 250 miles away from family to get better jobs / income. The drawback being we don't have family to help out with childcare. It would appear we can't ask friends.............per Ofsted..........but we can't get any help per GB

    It seems that GB is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Brilliant news, providing some free childcare for 2 year olds, mumble mumble quietly and hope no one will realise the true cost of this is increase in tax and Ni for working parents.
  • georgies mum
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:32 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:32 PM
    Am thankful both mine will be in school by 2015 as although we are not high earners (just under 40% tax) we earn too much to get the tax credits and i presume would not be offered a free place a nursey. Also low and middle earners will be worse of for the 1st 2 years as the nursery place only applies from 2 years old we have found the 120 a month (hubby and i both do vouchers) that we save on tax and NI a big help. It seems the harder you work the less help you get.
  • Dancing Shoes
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:58 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 09, 8:58 PM
    It seems the harder you work the less help you get.
    Originally posted by georgies mum
    It doesn't just seem that way it IS that way

    Where is the incentive for people to better themselves?:confused:
    : rotfl:
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 30th Sep 09, 9:17 PM
    • 11,851 Posts
    • 11,393 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 09, 9:17 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 09, 9:17 PM
    Earning good money seems to be a bad habit. Perhaps I will give it all up and stack shelves. No stress and as much credits as I can handle.
    Originally posted by TBeckett100
    So why don't you do that?
    • sly_dog_jonah
    • By sly_dog_jonah 30th Sep 09, 9:24 PM
    • 1,005 Posts
    • 1,211 Thanks
    sly_dog_jonah
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 09, 9:24 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 09, 9:24 PM
    Not to worry, this government will be history long before any such changes come into effect. Keep digging the Labour grave Gordon!
  • SarahNeedle1872
    There's nowt wrong with stacking shelves! It may not be a high paid job, but its a job! And there'd be naff all on the shelves if it weren't for shelf stackers1
    'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars' - Oscar Wilde
  • Dizie
    I've just posted this in the moneysaving in families etc section, but think its probably better here. Apologies if this is in the wrong place.

    An online petition has now been set up at the No 10 website about this, I've just had it emailed to me and have checked it out and its valid. I'm a working mother and DH and I are both members of our respective employers schemes. We are both standard rate tax payers, earning around the "average" mark I guess although my wage is part time. For us, its the difference between me being able to return to the job I did prior to having the kids rather than have to look for evening/weekend work to avoid the childcare need. Surely the government would prefer women like me to be paying someone to look after their kids whilst they work, so they're providing a job for someone else, paying taxes etc. I know from the parents who use the nursery I use, if we had to find an extra 2,000 per year, many would look for other ways to avoid using the nursery. Given the choice, I'd love to be at home looking after my kids, but we need the money and for us, the childcare vouchers have given us a way of me working part time and still having some "family" time.

    Gordon Brown today announced plans to scrap the childcare voucher scheme, stating too many higher rate tax payers benefit from it. He plans to replace it with 10 hours' free childcare for 2-year olds - which is OK if you have a 2-year old... The UK lags behind the rest of Europe when it comes to helping working parents and this move would be a further step backwards. Penalising working families to help other families go back to work makes no sense at all. If you're a working parent finding it hard enough with childcare vouchers, let alone without, please let Gordon Brown know that you do not agree with his plans by signing this petition



    http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/keepvouchers/
    Last edited by Dizie; 30-09-2009 at 9:53 PM.
  • kateab
    Well, I could be the lone voice here but I've never understood the point of a scheme to help people pay for their childcare which only benefitted those on higher incomes. If you're going to give tax relief on childcare, either give it to everyone or not at all.

    kateab
    Definitely NOT the blogger at Katie and the Kids, OK?
  • SarahNeedle1872
    The reason it was more beneficial to those with a higher income was because people on lower incomes usually qualify for tax credits/ working tax credits. 40% tax payers don't get much, if any tax credits.... Thats why in Martins article about it, is says that you may be worse of if you are claiming working family tax credits

    HTH
    'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars' - Oscar Wilde
    • davidlizard
    • By davidlizard 30th Sep 09, 10:53 PM
    • 1,539 Posts
    • 1,607 Thanks
    davidlizard
    We have two children, one part time in a nursery and the other who goes to a child minder after school. So we are likely to be paying for childcare in one form or another until well after 2015.

    Having read the article, I have some questions.

    1. Currently only I take vouchers as this pays for the costs - can my wife take them as well so we build up a surplus that will take us well beyond 2015 (or 2011 whenever it is that you can no longer get them without the tax break)?

    2. Does what this government say will happen in 2015 make any difference, as they look like being booted out of office in 6 months time, and the new government will then revise the spending/budgets anyway?
  • LizzieS
    The reason it was more beneficial to those with a higher income was because people on lower incomes usually qualify for tax credits/ working tax credits. 40% tax payers don't get much, if any tax credits.... Thats why in Martins article about it, is says that you may be worse of if you are claiming working family tax credits

    HTH
    Originally posted by SarahNeedle1872
    Yes but for those on higher incomes for whom tax credits was not the best option - vouchers do help those in the higher income brackets than those in the lower ones, which is strange considering the costs themselves will be the same.

    Not ever having been in the income bracket for vouchers to be more beneficial and having brought up children before any of these help schemes were introduced, all I can say is that like many more I afforded the cost of my children without any Government help (apart from child benefit) on a much lower income, so admitedly I find it hard to sympathise with those who have a better ability to bear the costs themselves.
  • Dizie

    1. Currently only I take vouchers as this pays for the costs - can my wife take them as well so we build up a surplus that will take us well beyond 2015 (or 2011 whenever it is that you can no longer get them without the tax break)?
    Originally posted by davidlizard
    BOTH parents can use the scheme although whether they'll be valid after 2015 I don't know. When I had my 2nd child, I had just been made redundant and so my husband continued to pay into his company scheme to build up a surplus for when I found a new job.

    Personally, I don't think the scheme only benefits those on higher incomes. Our family income is below the so called national average, but more than 16,000 which is the cut off to be able to claim to have up to 80% of your childcare costs paid. For us, our childcare cost is circa 6500 per year, 1 baby in nursery and a school child in before/after school club and holiday cover. We are both in the standard tax bracket, not the higher rate, and so it saves us 972 each per year, so just under 2,000. Most of my income is taken up by childcare costs, but it has got me back into work and once my son turns 2.5 and goes into pre-school care, this is cheaper than the baby nursery rate and so will save us a little more.
  • jsg2
    Also the governments "free nursery" places for 2-4 year olds is not much use to people who need more flexibility - i.e. using a childminder.

    Plus what happens when they go to school - people still need childcare, but now will get no support. This decision to scrap the voucher scheme will affect the lower paid as well as the higher paid.

    This is a badly thought out plan, and I can only hope that this government will be out of power before they have a chance to put it into effect. Although I wouldn't put it past them to sneak it into the budget before the election.
    • Guccigirl
    • By Guccigirl 1st Oct 09, 9:44 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 83 Thanks
    Guccigirl
    Well both my husband and I are certainly no way near the 40% tax payers and we don't qualify for working tax credit or childcare element of tax credit, but we do get just over 8 per week child tax credit.

    These childcare vouchers have been a godsend as we pull back over 80 per month which is a great deal to us as just managing to get by at the minute with utilities/food/council tax rises but employers not willing to give any increase in salaries due to the credit crunch..

    GB has seriously lost the plot - now gives out money to those who are pregnant to aide their healthy diet (by the sound of forums most spend the money on the latest prams), gives out additional maternity payments, pays out goodness knows how much with the Child Trust Fund. Now and after telling mums we need to work and encourage the work ethic wants to punish us so that we cannot afford to pay for childcare! He obviously wants more people to be unable to pay their mortgages and bills, end up losing their homes and claim benefits!

    They've spend billions (if not trillions) in excess of what they should and now they're panicking and trying to do scratch at anything to save money. It's ludicrous and it's too late GB!

    Of course he will have to spend money setting this up and who will pay for that?
    Guccigirl s MSE
    • Guccigirl
    • By Guccigirl 1st Oct 09, 9:47 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 83 Thanks
    Guccigirl
    Forgot to mention the wraparound care for older children who need cared for before and after school, which childcare vouchers can be used for.

    Our son started nursery at 5 months so well below the 2 years stated. Who would have paid me to stay off work?

    This will only drag more and more people away from working without recourse of claim to benefits and the welfare state will need more funding to help those he's dragged there.... what a fool.
    Guccigirl s MSE
  • mumof2girls
    I was gobsmacked to say the least!

    My OH and I are not high earners (OH is on 20 odd) and Im on 9k ptime, by the time we pay our childacre 700+, mortgage etc, we are bloomin low earners! I rely heavily on these vouchers through salary sacrifice.

    Yet again, penalised for working!

    EDIT: I have signed the petition!
    Wedding on hold until 2011. Mummy to DD1 3/2/6 DD2 5/10/7! Mortgaged to my eyeballs!
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