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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Lawrence
    'Should the UK join the Euro?' poll discussion
    • #1
    • 29th Sep 09, 9:36 AM
    'Should the UK join the Euro?' poll discussion 29th Sep 09 at 9:36 AM
    Poll between 29 September - 05 October 2009:

    Should the UK join the euro?


    The pound’s plummeted against the euro, so it's not far from £1=€1 (see Travel Money Max for latest rate).

    Is it time we joined the European currency? If so the rate would be fixed, and possibly at a higher exchange rate than the one we get now, or should we stick with the pound, which could bounce back? Remember it isn’t just about travel money, but has a massive impact on imports and exports.

    A. The UK should join the euro. - 30% (2886 votes)
    B. We should keep the pound. - 65% (6295 votes)
    C. Don’t know. - 5% (557 votes)

    This vote has now closed, but you can still click 'post reply' to discuss below. Thanks

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    Last edited by Former MSE Lawrence; 05-10-2009 at 10:52 AM.
Page 1
    • Alias_Omega
    • By Alias_Omega 29th Sep 09, 10:47 AM
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    Alias_Omega
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 09, 10:47 AM
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 09, 10:47 AM
    On a recent travel trip to spain, 2 local pints of lager (san migel) was 4 euros each, that was for the local stuff. That would equal to 3.80 a pint over here.

    I would hate to think what a premium lager would of cost (Stella etc).

    If we went to the euro, prices of drinks would increase overnight as seen when spain / ibiza took the euro, but im unsure if wages would increase to the same level. Possible wetherspoon offers of Carling / Carlsberg of 1.79 a pint increasing to 4 euro a drink etc. This is a basic example.

    On the basis of above, I guess we would expect our wages to increase, and then maybe from 28,000 a year to 56,000 Euros a year.

    I doubt it.

    I voted for keeping the
    Last edited by Alias_Omega; 29-09-2009 at 10:49 AM.
    • bryanb
    • By bryanb 29th Sep 09, 10:52 AM
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    bryanb
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 09, 10:52 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 09, 10:52 AM
    On a recent travel trip to spain, 2 local pints of lager (san migel) was 4 euros each, that was for the local stuff. That would equal to 3.80 a pint over here.

    I would hate to think what a premium lager would of cost (Stella etc).

    If we went to the euro, prices of drinks would increase overnight as seen when spain / ibiza took the euro, but im unsure if wages would increase to the same level. Possible wetherspoon offers of Carling / Carlsberg of 1.79 a pint increasing to 4 euro a drink etc. This is a basic example.

    On the basis of above, I guess we would expect our wages to increase, and then maybe from 28,000 a year to 56,000 Euros a year.

    I doubt it.

    I voted for keeping the
    Originally posted by Alias_Omega
    It's a culture thing regarding lager/beer. People of mainland Europe don't drink "Pints." (except Germans at beer halls in Bavaria) Plus one or two of what in UK would be a small beer would last a complete evening out.
    Last edited by bryanb; 29-09-2009 at 10:55 AM.
    This is an open forum, anyone can post and I just did !
    • Sceptic001
    • By Sceptic001 29th Sep 09, 11:04 AM
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    Sceptic001
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 09, 11:04 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 09, 11:04 AM
    The wording of the poll is flawed. Presumably when you say "possibly at a better exchange rate than the one we get now" you mean "possibly at a higher exchange rate than the one we get now", which for exporters would be worse!

    For me the key issue is not how many euros I get when I go on holiday, but who sets the UK's monetary policy, the Bank of England or the European Central Bank. It is difficult enough to set a single suitable interest rate for the UK. To require the UK to adopt the same rate as the eurozone would be to surrender a key economic tool to an organisation (the European Central Bank) which, by definition, is unable to act in the sole interest of the UK economy.
    • zygurat789
    • By zygurat789 29th Sep 09, 1:09 PM
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    zygurat789
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 09, 1:09 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 09, 1:09 PM
    throughout history we have been moving from a self-contained family unit (living in a cave), to nationstates (as we are today). The logical conclusion of this trend is a world state. No doubt there were citizens of Murcia, Wessex and Northumbria who also had the Luddite attitude but the Eurosceptics of today seem to be happy with what they have now, which just about sums up there attitude "progress over my dead body" to which the reply must be Yes.
    Lets get out there and lead the world like our forefathers taught us.
    The only thing that is constant is change.
    • Sceptic001
    • By Sceptic001 29th Sep 09, 2:27 PM
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    Sceptic001
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:27 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:27 PM
    The collapse of numerous empires over the last several thousand years (most recently the Soviet Union) tends to disprove your assertion, zygurat789.

    Successful political and economic unions (eg. USA) only last with the consent of their citizens. The jury is still out on the EU, but the omens are not good given the rulers' tendency to ignore the will of the people (eg. ignored referendums in France, the Netherlands and Ireland).
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 29th Sep 09, 2:27 PM
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    MSE Martin
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:27 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:27 PM
    The wording of the poll is flawed. Presumably when you say "possibly at a better exchange rate than the one we get now" you mean "possibly at a higher exchange rate than the one we get now", which for exporters would be worse!

    For me the key issue is not how many euros I get when I go on holiday, but who sets the UK's monetary policy, the Bank of England or the European Central Bank. It is difficult enough to set a single suitable interest rate for the UK. To require the UK to adopt the same rate as the eurozone would be to surrender a key economic tool to an organisation (the European Central Bank) which, by definition, is unable to act in the sole interest of the UK economy.
    Originally posted by Sceptic001

    good point - ill change that
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    • zygurat789
    • By zygurat789 29th Sep 09, 2:52 PM
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    zygurat789
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:52 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:52 PM
    Sceptic said
    The collapse of numerous empires over the last several thousand years (most recently the Soviet Union) tends to disprove your assertion, zygurat789.

    And because the stock market has gone down means it will never go up again. Your standard of PROOF is very low.

    And yes of course the structure has to be democratic, but again the movement over history has been towards democracy.

    That's the way we're heading and have been doing since the start, the luddites only caused a slight delay. It will happen one day
    The only thing that is constant is change.
    • zygurat789
    • By zygurat789 29th Sep 09, 2:58 PM
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    zygurat789
    • #9
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:58 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Sep 09, 2:58 PM
    The wording of the poll is flawed. Presumably when you say "possibly at a better exchange rate than the one we get now" you mean "possibly at a higher exchange rate than the one we get now", which for exporters would be worse!

    For me the key issue is not how many euros I get when I go on holiday, but who sets the UK's monetary policy, the Bank of England or the European Central Bank. It is difficult enough to set a single suitable interest rate for the UK. To require the UK to adopt the same rate as the eurozone would be to surrender a key economic tool to an organisation (the European Central Bank) which, by definition, is unable to act in the sole interest of the UK economy.
    Originally posted by Sceptic001
    Nor should they, they have to act in the best interests of the whole of Europe, that's their job and they've done it better than anyone in this country over the last 40 odd years. Shame it didn't happen years ago when some minor labour politician didn't want to upset the Durham miners and said no to the original organisation.
    The only thing that is constant is change.
  • teddyco
    If the UK and USA had adhered to the teachings of Adam Smith - who was a proponent of banking regulation seeing the inherent sinful nature of man and his propensity to greedy behavior - there would be proper restrictions in the banking system and we wouldn't be in this current financial mess.

    Also, on the point of joining the Euro, I would warn against this given that the EU is very young, and the actual government and judicial system is about as strong as clay.

    Adam Smith states in his Lectures on Jurisprudence that a factor that "greatly retarded commerce was the imperfection of the law and the uncertainty in its application" (Smith, 528)

    The biggest problem with the European Union at this time is the level of confusion associated with its' laws, regulations and the enforcement of those laws. Economic success and likewise power of a national currency is directly proportional to the perfection of the legislative and judicial power and its' ability to enforce and protect its' citizens and their personal property.

    Say NO to the Euro!
    Last edited by teddyco; 30-09-2009 at 6:21 PM.
    • zygurat789
    • By zygurat789 29th Sep 09, 3:36 PM
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    zygurat789
    If the UK and USA had adhered to the teachings of Adam Smith - who was a proponent of banking regulation seeing the inherent sinful nature of man and his propensity to greedy behavior - there would be proper restrictions in the banking system and we wouldn't be in this current financial mess.

    Also, on the point of joining the Euro, I would warn against this given that the EU is very young, and the actual government and judicial system is about as strong as clay.

    Adam Smith states in his Lectures on Jurisprudence that a factor that "greatly retarded commerce was the imperfection of the law and the uncertainty in its application" (Smith, 528)

    The biggest problem with the European Union at this time is the level of confusion associated with its' laws, regulations and the enforcement of those laws. Economic success and likewise power of a national currency is directly proportional to the perfection of the legislative and judicial power and its' ability to enforce and protect its' citizens and their personal property.
    Originally posted by teddyco
    Yes Lets get in and sort it out properly
    The only thing that is constant is change.
    • Sceptic001
    • By Sceptic001 29th Sep 09, 3:53 PM
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    Sceptic001
    Sceptic said
    The collapse of numerous empires over the last several thousand years (most recently the Soviet Union) tends to disprove your assertion, zygurat789.

    And because the stock market has gone down means it will never go up again. Your standard of PROOF is very low.

    And yes of course the structure has to be democratic, but again the movement over history has been towards democracy.

    That's the way we're heading and have been doing since the start, the luddites only caused a slight delay. It will happen one day
    Originally posted by zygurat789
    I hope you are right about democracy, zyggi (if nothing else), in which case the EU in its present form is doomed to fail. Although it has a toy parliament to give the illusion of democracy, power is concentrated in the hands of the unelected bureaucrats of the European Commission.

    Politicians love the EU because it gives them power (and fat salaries and expenses beyond the dreams of UK MPs) without accountability.
    • zygurat789
    • By zygurat789 29th Sep 09, 4:22 PM
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    zygurat789

    Politicians love the EU because it gives them power (and fat salaries and expenses beyond the dreams of UK MPs) without accountability.
    Originally posted by Septic001
    They're all at it. I don't suppose we'll ever see those who claimed for more council tax than they paid prosecuted and this was outside even their rules.

    It needs sorting, we've done that for Europe before.
    Last edited by zygurat789; 29-09-2009 at 6:31 PM.
    The only thing that is constant is change.
  • alared
    The time for joining the euro was when we were getting 1.45 to the pound and not now when it is virtually one for one.

    Although going by Brown`s disastrous gold selling escapade,he would think right now is a good time.
    • Sceptic001
    • By Sceptic001 29th Sep 09, 4:30 PM
    • 1,099 Posts
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    Sceptic001
    They're all at it. I don't suppose we'll ever see those who claimed for more council tax than they paid prosecuted and this was outside even their rules.

    It needs sorting, we've done that for Europe before.
    Originally posted by zygurat789
    Crikey, do you think we've got to storm the Normandy beaches again? Given the state of our armed forces we will need the Yanks to help us out with that one , but now I'm going seriously off-topic.

    Let's hope that we can rely on the Irish (Luddites you would call them presumably, zyggi) to adopt a slightly less violent method by voting No to the Lisbon Treaty on Friday. That would strike another massive blow for democracy in Europe and stall the EU gravy train for a few more months.
    • zygurat789
    • By zygurat789 29th Sep 09, 6:39 PM
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    zygurat789
    Crikey, do you think we've got to storm the Normandy beaches again? Given the state of our armed forces we will need the Yanks to help us out with that one , but now I'm going seriously off-topic.

    Let's hope that we can rely on the Irish (Luddites you would call them presumably, zyggi) to adopt a slightly less violent method by voting No to the Lisbon Treaty on Friday. That would strike another massive blow for democracy in Europe and stall the EU gravy train for a few more months.
    Originally posted by Septic001
    Your mindset is very worrying, you seem to be afflicted with tangential thoughts. The British always used to have clarity of thought and the nouse to know what to do and the grit to do it, by jingo. Why would you hone in on one instance and expand it exponentially?
    Oh BTW the luddites were in no way democratic. Do you perchance write for the Daily Excess? You're about as logical.
    The only thing that is constant is change.
    • Diesel44
    • By Diesel44 29th Sep 09, 7:48 PM
    • 594 Posts
    • 494 Thanks
    Diesel44
    The POUND Rules, the POUND must stay !
  • transgenic
    We should keep the pound. It is one of the only things which seperates us from the EU and lets face it, the EU is becoming more and more a superstate every day. We MUST retain our independence by doing as much asn possible. Once we have the Euro, they will force pubs to sell half litres rather than pints etc.
    Debt as of 02/02/2012
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  • tramsay
    For me the key issue is not how many euros I get when I go on holiday, but who sets the UK's monetary policy, the Bank of England or the European Central Bank. It is difficult enough to set a single suitable interest rate for the UK. To require the UK to adopt the same rate as the eurozone would be to surrender a key economic tool to an organisation (the European Central Bank) which, by definition, is unable to act in the sole interest of the UK economy.
    Originally posted by Sceptic001
    Great post

    Central banks have incredible power

    • PolishBigSpender
    • By PolishBigSpender 29th Sep 09, 11:23 PM
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    PolishBigSpender
    It's okay, UK, stay out of the Euro if you want.

    Meanwhile, more and more countries will move to the Euro and any country outside of the zone will be facing a distinct disadvantage. Let's not forget that the Glorious Pound was up as high as 1.60EUR-1 pound a few years ago, and now it's near parity. Obviously the GREAT Pound is...well...not so great now. It's also not far off the historical low against the Zloty - today, it's trading about 4.6, and the historical low is about 4.2 or so. Given the weakness of the Zloty, this really is bad news for the UK.

    Just remeber one thing - who is going to bail the UK out if the UK needs to be bailed out? Not the ECB, that's for certain.
    From Poland...with love.

    They are (they're)
    sitting on the floor.
    Their
    books are lying on the floor.
    The books are sitting just there on the floor.
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