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    Former MSE Lawrence
    'Should we withdraw from Europe?' poll discussion
    • #1
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:26 AM
    'Should we withdraw from Europe?' poll discussion 8th Jun 09 at 10:26 AM
    Poll between 8-15 June 2009.

    Should we withdraw from Europe?

    From regulations to unlocking trade barriers the European Union (EU) plays a huge part in our economic life. We’ve just had Euro elections and the eurosceptic parties did well, but let's purify the question.

    Which of these is closest to your view on Europe?

    A. Full integration. A United States of Europe. - 6% (737 votes)
    B. More Integration. E.g. Join the Euro & have unified foreign policy. - 13% (1545 votes)
    C. Status Quo. Keep things as they are now. - 12% (1357 votes)
    D. Less Integration. E.g. Keep open trade but that’s it. - 38% (4405 votes)
    E. Withdraw. UK to leave the EU. - 30% (3470 votes)

    Total votes: 11514

    Voting has now closed, but you can still click 'post reply' to discuss below. Thanks

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    Last edited by Former MSE Lawrence; 15-06-2009 at 2:11 PM.
Page 1
  • Saucepot
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:42 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:42 AM
    I vote E. Time to sack off the corrupt EU, an organisation unable even to sign off its own accounts, and save ourselves 65 billion a year.

    If Ted Heath were still alive he would deserve charging with treason.
  • BritRael
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:46 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:46 AM
    D

    Close our borders now!
    Marching On Together

    I've upped my standards...so up yours!
  • Beth - MrsC2be
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 09, 11:14 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 09, 11:14 AM
    D - Why should Europe dictate how many hours we work?! In the middle of a recession they want to enforce a limit on the number of working hours per week which doesn't affect if you work the odd few hours overtime but if you have two jobs or rely heavily on a lot of overtime you'll be worse off financially
    • Flickering Ember
    • By Flickering Ember 8th Jun 09, 11:40 AM
    • 11,646 Posts
    • 128,882 Thanks
    Flickering Ember
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 09, 11:40 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 09, 11:40 AM
    I also say D.
    Flickering Embers grow higher and higher...I need a break and I wanna be a paperback writer!
  • southern_cavalier
    • #6
    • 8th Jun 09, 3:30 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jun 09, 3:30 PM
    D. Let's put 40 million quid a day towards benefiting our country eh?
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 8th Jun 09, 3:32 PM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 26,389 Thanks
    robpw2
    • #7
    • 8th Jun 09, 3:32 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jun 09, 3:32 PM
    status quo i voted for their a fab pop group


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
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  • _soapy_
    • #8
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:41 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jun 09, 10:41 PM
    D - Less regulation (and less from Westminster too!) and more thought regarding the laws passed would be nice.
  • MrMuttley
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 09, 6:03 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 09, 6:03 AM
    B I never understood the "we wont be Britain without the Pound" mentality
  • frostyglow
    A - I'm all for more unification. I know the EU has some bugs in it but once everyone jumps in and stops hovering neither in nor out of the EU it will make it much better. I'm also petrified after the European elections where UKIP did so well that so many people were willing to vote for them! Please people, lets not draw our own "iron curtain" around Britain!
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 9th Jun 09, 8:43 AM
    • 6,503 Posts
    • 4,141 Thanks
    Ken68
    I also voted A... total unification. The idea of limiting hours is to stop employer exploitation. If you want to work more hours go self employed.
    This country is just too small to have any clout.
  • teddyco
    There are many who voted for D: Less Integration. E.g. Keep open trade but that’s it.

    That sounds really good if indeed it remained that way, but remember that the EU originally started as the European Economic Community in 1958 and it was only for 'economic trade', but after 40 years there is already a currency, a national flag, a government that issues laws and a European Court that enforces those laws. A President and a Constitution are right around the corner....

    Do you REALLY believe that the EU will only allow us to engage in 'trade' and that's all?
    Last edited by teddyco; 09-06-2009 at 12:06 PM.
  • rickbonar
    There was a referendum in 1975 and the question was a simple yes or no to:

    Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?

    There was a government campaign to persuade people to vote yes and it was sold with an assurance that it solely a common market to trade and "we can always leave at any time if it doesn't work out"

    and a yes vote won despite lucid arguments against the absurd common agricultural policy; and Tony Benn correctly illustrating job losses as a consequence of joining.

    Now what the public voted for was a "common market" NOT a federal state in which we are answerable to unelected (by us) bureaucrats and large corporations who allegedly fund many of these bureaucrats in lavish lifestyles which make some of claims the British expense scandal look like a young childs pocket money.
    • ScarletBea
    • By ScarletBea 9th Jun 09, 11:47 AM
    • 2,788 Posts
    • 4,163 Thanks
    ScarletBea
    C - we are absolutely fine, and those who want out have no idea of how trade and exports will suffer from it, as well as your holidays and your property abroad...
    Being brave is going after your dreams head on
  • teddyco
    ScarletBea,

    There was a report done in 2004 entitled 'A Cost Too Far?'. This was an analysis of the net economic costs and benefits for the UK of EU membership.
    Four other reports were also conducted, all of which concluded that membership of the EU is costing the UK far more than is received. The reports go into great detail and make some amazing points.

    http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/cs37.pdf

    This information was taken from that report done in 2004.

    "The current recurring annual direct net cost to the UK of EU
    membership is estimated to range between approximately
    three and five per cent of GDP, with a ‘most likely’ figure of
    four per cent of GDP, equivalent to 40 billion per year

    To illustrate the magnitude of that amount, the UK defence
    budget is 27 billion a year, while excise duties (on drink,
    fuel and tobacco) raise 40 billion a year

    Within the ‘most likely’ 40 billion, 20 billion is the direct
    net cost of EU regulation to the UK economy—annually

    A further 15 billion is the direct net cost to the UK economy
    of the Common Agricultural Policy

    Another 5 billion is the annual cash subsidy that the UK
    pays to ‘Brussels’ through the EU budget"

    Also,

    Did you know that Mexico already trades with the EU via the Mexico Free Trade Agreement with few if any of the legislative and other costs of membership of the single market?
    Last edited by teddyco; 09-06-2009 at 1:42 PM.
  • teddyco
    The report also indicates:

    "The British government admits that ‘about half of major UK laws start off in Europe’. In addition, since 1973, it has enacted directly in the UK a minimum (it does not know the precise number) of 101,811 EU regulations. Clearly, the impact of EU legislation in the UK is on its way to fulfilling the prediction made over a decade ago by Jacques Delors, that 80 per cent of member states’ laws would soon be made in Brussels."

    And for those who are struggling to pay higher food prices....listen to this taken from the report.

    "HM Treasury reports that, for the whole of EU-15, the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) costs ‘EU taxpayers and consumers around $100 billion a year
    through subsidies and higher food prices’, equivalent to ‘an implicit tax on food of around 26 per cent’.
    Last edited by teddyco; 09-06-2009 at 1:45 PM.
    • urban469
    • By urban469 9th Jun 09, 11:17 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    urban469
    Europe exists, deal with it. We wouldn't be anything without the Union. The Empire doesn't exist guys!!

    B. Join the Euro, dump the pathetic Pound, and unify foreign policy to create a truly bi-polar world.
    • scouseneil
    • By scouseneil 9th Jun 09, 11:55 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    scouseneil
    D for me, hearing UKIP MEP had claimed 2 MILLION ! in expenses just makes me think more and more what a drain it is on the UK.
  • wenyi
    The whole debate, especially in the UK, is a never-ending merry-go-round where the nation states block the greater democratisation of the EU and then blame it for being undemocratic!

    It was the UK, chiefly, that wanted a "broader, shallower" Europe and which pushed for the rapid expansion Eastwards. That is what has brought most of the problems with EU membership. The EU would have been better off as a more West European entity.

    I voted B - more integration!
  • cport80
    C - we are absolutely fine, and those who want out have no idea of how trade and exports will suffer from it, as well as your holidays and your property abroad...
    Originally posted by ScarletBea
    I have no property abroad and if I went away the whole experience would likely be marred by french transport workers going on strike or fishermen being allowed to blockade ports. Unfortunate as flying over France would provide my only export to Europe .I vote E because so much euro-legislation doesn't seem to agree with us here and I can't support euro-mp's who vote not to publicise their expenses.
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