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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Jenny
    • By MSE Jenny 21st Apr 09, 5:51 PM
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    MSE Jenny
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Lofty hold out for his dream job?
    • #1
    • 21st Apr 09, 5:51 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Lofty hold out for his dream job? 21st Apr 09 at 5:51 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Lofty hold out for his dream job?

    Lofty went to university as a mature student. He graduated last July, and has worked on and off, yet has still to secure a graduate-level job. The local supermarket has shelf stacking work, but after all that time and study, Lofty wants to hold out for work that uses his degree skills. Should he go on benefits while he waits for his dream job? (This was inspired by a Radio 5 phone-in).


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Page 1
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 21st Apr 09, 5:54 PM
    • 6,720 Posts
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    GlasweJen
    • #2
    • 21st Apr 09, 5:54 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Apr 09, 5:54 PM
    He could try but he'd probably be sanctioned from claiming if he left his shelf stacking job voluntarily.
    Bounts, Quidco, Shop and Scan, Receipt Hog, Costco Cashback, Debit card cashback

    NOT BUYING IT
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  • dmg24
    • #3
    • 21st Apr 09, 8:32 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Apr 09, 8:32 PM
    (This was inspired by a Radio 5 phone-in).
    Originally posted by MSE Jenny
    Sounds more like some of the recent trolls/ wind ups on here!
  • ceridwen
    • #4
    • 21st Apr 09, 8:39 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Apr 09, 8:39 PM
    Hmmmm....not an easy one here.

    I would say - he should do the shelfstacking job whilst he waits for "his" type of job on the one hand - BUT I'm aware that a shelfstacking job would probably mean antisocial hours on the other hand (and I wouldnt expect ANYONE to be forced into antisocial hours work against their will - whatever their qualifications) on the other hand.

    So - purely and simply because of the antisocial hours aspect of the job (rather than the job type itself) - then no I wouldnt expect him to have to do this if he didnt want to. Anyways - there will be plenty of other people willing to do that job - antisocial hours or not - so, in this day and age one person would be on the dole queue - so it might as well be the one who didnt choose to do antisocial hours.
    • LondonDiva
    • By LondonDiva 21st Apr 09, 8:47 PM
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    LondonDiva
    • #5
    • 21st Apr 09, 8:47 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Apr 09, 8:47 PM
    If he has savings or parents / partner willing to support him, he can wait as long as it takes for the dream job.

    If he is being supported by the benefit system, he should take the job or be compelled to, searching for work in his spare time and at lunchtimes like the rest of the working population.
    "This is a forum - not a support group. We do not "owe" anyone unconditional acceptance of their opinions."
  • barnaby-bear
    • #6
    • 21st Apr 09, 10:58 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Apr 09, 10:58 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Lofty hold out for his dream job?

    Lofty went to university as a mature student. He graduated last July, and has worked on and off, yet has still to secure a graduate-level job. The local supermarket has shelf stacking work, but after all that time and study, Lofty wants to hold out for work that uses his degree skills. Should he go on benefits while he waits for his dream job? (This was inspired by a Radio 5 phone-in).


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    Originally posted by MSE Jenny
    There are only 6 levels of management at Tescos from the lowest rank to the top (As opposed to 42 in the NHS :rolleyes. Major supermarket chains are huge, slick, professional organisations with a wealth of opportunities and training programmes. OK it's starting at a level lower than he wanted but surely that's higher than the dole. Supermarkets aren't noddy organisations and would we be debating an entry position at a blue chip firm like IBM/Nortel in the same way? If it was a junior IT post rather than a grad. entry programme would there be the snobbery? Tescos just posted record profits in a difficult economic climate - you can have a fancy title in plenty of tin-pot soon-to-the-wall companies. Working on the shop floor can give great insight and besides NMW is better than the dole and if you don't like it apply for other jobs - it really isn't that hard to fit in around a job - millions of others manage to move from one job to another.
    • Habbie66
    • By Habbie66 21st Apr 09, 11:04 PM
    • 1 Posts
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    Habbie66
    • #7
    • 21st Apr 09, 11:04 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Apr 09, 11:04 PM
    My brother-in-law gave up a well paid skilled job to go to university. He got his degree and started applying for jobs. He went on benefits and kept applying for jobs that used his degree skills. That was 14 years ago and he hasn't worked since! For ten years he lived off his parents and got paid as their carer. During this time he also got several grants from the Benefits Agency to start his own business - which never got off the ground. For the last 4 years he has lived off his wealthy girlfriend. Should Lofty take the job - damn right he should.
    • RobertoMoir
    • By RobertoMoir 21st Apr 09, 11:06 PM
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    RobertoMoir
    • #8
    • 21st Apr 09, 11:06 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Apr 09, 11:06 PM
    I don't see what the dilemma is. I'm an IT guy but I've done some pretty cruddy jobs when I've had to. They should do the job and consider it good "life experience" when they've moved on to better things.
    If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything
    • AHAR
    • By AHAR 21st Apr 09, 11:11 PM
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    AHAR
    • #9
    • 21st Apr 09, 11:11 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Apr 09, 11:11 PM
    Seems like a no-brainer to me. How can sitting around the house living on benefits be better than going out and doing something and meeting people? The dream job won't come any sooner by not doing the supermarket job.
    • scotsbob
    • By scotsbob 21st Apr 09, 11:17 PM
    • 4,462 Posts
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    scotsbob
    Yes he should, because as a taxpayer I can't afford to. I have the RBS and Northern Rock to support and my MP's expenses to fund.
  • Kernow Kid
    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Take the cash while its there, its just as easy to find a job when you are working nights as when you are sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle.
    Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave!
  • Bismarck
    Take the job. Make a plan and either succeed from within or plan the next move- preferably try and do both. Its easier and cheaper to apply for other jobs than it used to be and if he wants to make it happen, he'll get every chance. It's up to him in the end but being sat at home is asking for trouble with the current climate.
    For what I've done...I start again...And whatever pain may come ...Today this ends... I'm forgiving what I've done -AF since June 2007
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 22nd Apr 09, 12:04 AM
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    Voyager2002
    I don't agree with the question is posed... You don't WAIT for a good job, you exert yourself and go out and get it. If Lofty is being serious about his job hunt, he simply won't have time or energy to do much work in the supermarket.

    He should also note that someone who has been unemployed for more than a few months, or has spent too much time doing a low-level job, is not going to make the shortlists for the kinds of jobs he wants. The way round this bind is to do voluntary work for some kind of charity or good cause, making sure that he gets work experience that is relevant to his career goals so that he can develop appropriate skills and demonstrate achievement using them. He would also be giving back to the community in return for the benefits enabling him to live.

    Personally, I lost my research job in October 2007. One of the things that I have done with my "spare" time since then is to serve as a trustee (director) of a dynamic charity and this has given me experience of processes at senior management level. I have talked about these quite a bit in the (many) job interviews I have been to, and in particular in the interview for my new job (I start next week). It worked for me: I shall be going from a zero income to a six-figure 'package'.
    • gizzie121
    • By gizzie121 22nd Apr 09, 12:24 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 215 Thanks
    gizzie121
    Just goes to show how pointless a degree is these days!
    • 1ec
    • By 1ec 22nd Apr 09, 1:26 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    1ec
    lounger lofty
    Of course he should take the supermarket job in the meantime. Why should I pay for him to be picky? - he shouldn't have the choice of not working if he is able to do so. I understand his frustration but there are other good reasons for working - employers are more likely to take on someone in work (including voluntary activities) than doing nothing; he will gain knowledge and skills as no experience is wasted; he will earn some respect, including self-respect and there may be more senior opportunities in this company or others in the sector.
  • Atelier1975
    re should Lofty stack shelves
    I don't think the options are, "either a) start stacking shelves or b) wait for future possible job". And that awful word wait seems to give all responsibility for his happiness to someone else, and on those dreaded interview skills and other slightly arbitrary factors, such as the state of the economy.

    I think he has to either work part-time whilst trying to work towards his dream job in the rest of the time through volunteering and further qualifications (a postgraduate diploma or so), or b) claim benefits and busy himself through volunteering and continued study.

    Whlst it's great to have a dream, as an ambitious graduate, working full-time in Tesco might hurt that, if it's not a graduate trainee or other relevant position. Part-time or claiming benefits might be better if either enables Lofty to volunteer and do further study towards his goal - maybe even setting up his own enterprise - that's the ultimate 'taking responsibility' for his own happiness, after all.

    If claiming benefits enables him to better busy himself in these ways, with a time-frame and a plan for where he wants to be and how hes going to make it happen, Id go for it. You have to think medium-long term with these things. But if it makes him sit around Id go part-time at Tesco the dullness should motivate him to pursue better things!

    If he thinks he can be a Tesco Manager and make a career of that, and actually wants to more than other things then why not full-time - but I suspect his dream lies elsewhere. If so, he needs to work towards and not undermine that.
  • Atelier1975
    re should Lofty stack shelves
    I don't think the options are, "either a) start stacking shelves or b) wait for future possible job". And that awful word wait seems to give all responsibility for his happiness to someone else, and on those dreaded interview skills and other slightly arbitrary factors, such as the state of the economy.

    I think he has to either work part-time whilst trying to work towards his dream job in the rest of the time through volunteering and further qualifications (a postgraduate diploma or so), or b) claim benefits and busy himself through said activities. Why not make the goal some form of self-employment or personal enterprise, thus taking yet more responsibility for his own happiness? In any case, if part-time paid dead-end work undermines the volunteering/study/enterprise, then it might be as well to go on benefits for the sake of achieving the longer-term goals, if they seem realistically achievable.

    He should plot a path, with a timeframe and clear steps needed to achieve what he wants. It's not enough - as a mature graduate, unfortunately - to think one will just get a degree and then get the right job.

    As an ambitious graduate, working full-time in Tesco might hurt his having a dream, if it's not a graduate trainee or other relevant position, not capable of giving him the interesting life he's looking for. If his excitement lies elsewhere, he needs to work towards and not undermine achieving that - neither through waiting nor by simply settling for the nearest fruit, so to speak.
    Last edited by Atelier1975; 22-04-2009 at 2:09 AM. Reason: inaccurate
    • keet83
    • By keet83 22nd Apr 09, 4:02 AM
    • 211 Posts
    • 94 Thanks
    keet83
    don't take the job you'll get too settled and it'll slow you down or even stop you looking for your dream job. keep looking and just watch your money, only take the job if you need the money desperately.
    Beggars cant be choosers, but savers can!
    That used to be the case
  • ailuro2
    Who knows who you'll meet when shelf stacking?

    More jobs are available via word of mouth, and already having a foot in the door of a company than going down the job centre and waiting for the perfect job to come along.

    He needs to get his backside out there and try and find work.

    Of course the other half of me says leave the lower paid jobs for those who can't find one with better pay, if he has someone who can support him financially.
    Member of the first Mortgage Free in 3 challenge, no.19
    Balance 19th April '07 = minus 27,640
    Balance 1st November '09 = mortgage paid off with 1903 left over. Title deeds are now ours.
  • KT1985
    Lofty needs to get a job- any job will do for the time being.

    The job market (or lack of it) is currently so scary, that to have anything is worth doing.

    He should apply, but quite possibly will be over qualified, or will come across as not really wanting the job- even shelf stacking is highly customer service motivated. If he then got the job he would learn lots of skills that are transferrable to other places of work, and show resilience and willingness.

    From a money point of view, I thought that JSA required you to be looking for work, and to accept any reasonable offers of employment? lofty doesn't really seem prepared to do this.

    So... I think he should apply for a lowpaying job (which he might not necessarily get) whilst perhaps continuing to train, ie doing ECDL or some relevant OU study.

    Mummy to 2 small 4 year old bundles of mischief!
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