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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 23rd Feb 09, 3:39 PM
    • 1,874Posts
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    MSE Archna
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Who should pay for the lost iPod?
    • #1
    • 23rd Feb 09, 3:39 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Who should pay for the lost iPod? 23rd Feb 09 at 3:39 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Who should pay for the lost iPod?

    You’re hard up and in desperate need of some quick cash. Your mate offers to sell your iPod on eBay for you, as you don’t know how it works. (S)he sells it and give you the money, which you quickly spend. The buyer then declares they’ve not received the item and it turns out your mate didn’t pay for recorded delivery or get proof of postage. Who should stump up the cash for the lost iPod?

    Click reply to have your say

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    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 03-03-2009 at 12:34 PM.
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  • ovetta2001
    • #2
    • 24th Feb 09, 11:43 PM
    • #2
    • 24th Feb 09, 11:43 PM
    Pesonally I think it was on what you agreed with your mate.
    If you said send it by normal delivery then you will have to refund it but if you told your friend to send my recorded and they didn't esp if they charged on ebay for recorded) then it is their fault.
    Debts: Gym 465.75 Student account 1039.88 Overdraft 129.00 Credit Card 2772.22 Loan 6222.01
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  • 7db
    • #3
    • 25th Feb 09, 12:04 AM
    • #3
    • 25th Feb 09, 12:04 AM
    Well it's not like your mate was doing a professional service for you or anything (who paid the eBay fees?!) so you're a bit limited in what you can be exasperated with him/her for doing.

    Ultimately you are the owner of the iPod and it's been lost before ownership have been fully transferred (technically it is transferred when posted, but it's transferred back when the buyer gets his refund).

    There's another issue which is that your mate might only have got you half the value of the iPod by not selling it well on eBay -- that's half as big a problem as the original moral dilemma, but much easier to solve -- you wouldn't expect him/her to cough up the other half if he mis-sold it.

    So easy - you owe him for the money he gave you - spent or not.

    Seems like another good reason to use a professional eBay seller to do it for you -- pay the commission and know that you're getting a reliable (read: they cough up if they screw up) service!
    • Taffybiker
    • By Taffybiker 25th Feb 09, 6:26 AM
    • 917 Posts
    • 499 Thanks
    Taffybiker
    • #4
    • 25th Feb 09, 6:26 AM
    • #4
    • 25th Feb 09, 6:26 AM
    Ebay (unfairly to my mind) insists on the use of PayPal when electronic items are being listed. Naturally, since PayPal is an ebay company it's extra cash in their coffers because the seller has to pay both eBay and PayPal charges. The chances are the buyer would have used this method because it's easy and quick.
    I say drag it out and make PayPal work for their stupidly high commission. Make them make the decision. By the time it's all sorted I could have enough saved to pay back (just in case)
    Personally, I use CQout instead. They offer escrow where all money is held until the buyer is happy. The seller is much more careful (and honest) then.
    • tallgirld
    • By tallgirld 25th Feb 09, 7:00 AM
    • 476 Posts
    • 315 Thanks
    tallgirld
    • #5
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:00 AM
    • #5
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:00 AM
    My suspicious mind would be wondering if my mate even posted the ipod in the first place!!!!

    I would pay for it and blame myself for relying on help from a "mate"
    • Dorrie
    • By Dorrie 25th Feb 09, 7:41 AM
    • 66 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    Dorrie
    • #6
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:41 AM
    • #6
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:41 AM
    I found this a difficult one. Would probably pay back my friend as it was my item, but it would depend on what you had agreed as Ovetta2001 said. As an experience eBay seller, I always send recorded delivery and if it had been me selling the item for a friend, I would not have paid them the money until I knew the buyer had received it and was happy. This is what I do when I sell things for my children - and, thinking about it from that viewpoint, if I sold something or one of my children and it didn't arrive I would make my children pay as it was their item.
    • echelon101
    • By echelon101 25th Feb 09, 7:54 AM
    • 273 Posts
    • 780 Thanks
    echelon101
    • #7
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:54 AM
    • #7
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:54 AM
    Dumping all the friendship issues.

    1 = me
    2 = ebay friend
    3 = non recipient

    By offering to sell your Ipod 2 has made a verbal agreement to 1 that the Ipod will be sold on ebay. This verbal agreement is satisfied when cash is received from 1. The use of ebay is between three parties, the seller/ebay/buyer, this does not include any other people. In this instance 2 is the seller, obviously. Since 2 has not sent the packagre recorded delivery there is not proof of postage which is what Ebay requires in order to mediate non-delivery disputes. If the item was listed with "normal postage" then it is 3's fault for taking the risk. HOWEVER if the item was posted with the postage option of recorded delivery and it was selected then it is 2's fault. At no point is it 1's fault as they have already exchanged the item for cash on sale and it's 2/3 interaction.

    I hope that makes sense.
    Buy for value not cost.
    Feb Grocery = 55.87 / 80
    • ukmonkey
    • By ukmonkey 25th Feb 09, 7:58 AM
    • 3,004 Posts
    • 2,347 Thanks
    ukmonkey
    • #8
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:58 AM
    • #8
    • 25th Feb 09, 7:58 AM
    Recorded Delivery would only insure the parcel upto 100x the cost of a first class stamp (which is the same cover that ordinary mail with a certiicate of posting would provide).

    Recorded Delivery ("Recorded Signed For" as it is known these days) is simply the same as first class mail except it should be signed for by someone at the recipient address upon delivery (not necessarily the named recipient, simply someone at the address), and it can be tracked to see if delivery has been attempted/completed. It cannot be tracked through it's journey, only once delivery has been made or attempted.

    Recorded Delivery still won't cover you for the loss cash or other valuables such as jewellery etc.

    Special Delivery on the other hand is insured, can be used for sending cash and other valuables, is fully trackable through it's journey and is signed for upon deliver (as Recorded is).

    HTH's.
  • traceyf01
    • #9
    • 25th Feb 09, 8:50 AM
    • #9
    • 25th Feb 09, 8:50 AM
    I think he should pay for the ipod - he may have asked his mate to put it on ebay - fair enough - but I'm sure he could manage to take it to the postoffice himself! The mate was doing a favour after all - don't take advantage!
  • AnneWorkman
    I would think splitting the cost would be fair. If the mate was an expert on ebay as claimed, then they should have known better on postage and ensured some proof of posting. However, as it was a mate, I think a show of goodwill would be in order, so paying back half the cost would be fair.
  • marvic
    Bad luck. Put it down to experience
    • pennypinchUK
    • By pennypinchUK 25th Feb 09, 10:25 AM
    • 382 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    pennypinchUK
    First of all, I'd wait 15 working days (the length of time Royal Mail requires before it's accepted an item is lost in the post). During this time, I'd be in contact with the buyer asking them to check with the local sorting office. I've been a full time eBayer and have had many instances when a buyer claims they've not received an item, only for them to find it in the sorting office awaiting their collection. They'll swear blind the postie didn't leave a card to say there was no-one in when they tried to deliver it (and the postie couldn't fit it through the letter box). Only afterwards, we find the postie did leave a card but it's been scooped up with the junk mail and put in the bin (this is most common in flats).

    Most eBay buyers are honest, and if pressed will confirm when an item has arrived. There are a few who will push their luck more and claim an item hasn't arrived (especially as eBay have now changed the feedback rules so sellers can't leave negative feedback).

    If the item doesn't arrive within 15 days you have little or no recall, and sadly it's one to put down to experience. No point in asking your mate to pay the money back - they were just doing you a favour.
    • JayD
    • By JayD 25th Feb 09, 10:26 AM
    • 517 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    JayD
    Well, I hope you and your friend would have learned some valuable lessons on this one.

    Surely everyone knows by now that you never trust Royal Mail ?
    At the very least get a proof of posting and then they have to colugh up 30 x the cost of your postage if they lose the item.
    It also protects you if devious buyers, (which are extremely rare but do exist), claim non receipt even tho they have received the item.

    Your friend did you a favour and you didn't get involved enough to oversee it (or else you went along with that schoolboy error). Either way, I see it is your responsibility. So give your friend back his/her money and accept that this was one of life's reminders to cover your tail - always!
  • mluton
    I wouldn't stump up the cash.

    His loss. If he never sent it by recorded delivery (Why not, I do not know), sorry his bag.

    We all have eBay bad times, as above put it down to experience.
  • daisy1111
    My Ipod, my problem.

    I would rather pay back the money than loose a friend.

    I asked for my friends help, I sold my Ipod. Why should my friend be out of pocket for helping me?

    Think of it the other way round - if you sold an Ipod for your friend and it didnt turn up i would be very annoyed if they expected me to pay for it when it was their item and their money.
    Money makes the world go mad, the world go mad, the world go mad!
  • mluton
    My Ipod, my problem.

    I would rather pay back the money than loose a friend.

    I asked for my friends help, I sold my Ipod. Why should my friend be out of pocket for helping me?

    Think of it the other way round - if you sold an Ipod for your friend and it didnt turn up i would be very annoyed if they expected me to pay for it when it was their item and their money.
    Originally posted by daisy1111
    Would you really loose a friend over this though ?
  • daisy1111
    I think you could.

    If you are both arguing about who should be paying for the item the chances are you could loose a friend.

    And if you are refusing the pay it will come out of your friends pocket as it would have been them who the initial money went to. They are not going to be happy about that!
    Money makes the world go mad, the world go mad, the world go mad!
    • stu369
    • By stu369 25th Feb 09, 11:39 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    stu369
    If the friend is stupid enough to offer to sell on your behalf and then make a mess of it, they should pay for all the consequences.
    So it would be up to paypal to decide who loses out the buyer or the ebay seller.

    If the friend really wanted to be helpful he could have shown me how to use ebay. (give a man a fish/give a man a fishing line)
  • daisy1111
    Its not stupid enough its about trying to be helpful, friends do that.

    Paypal will say it is the sellers fault as the item did not arrive.

    If you wanted to learn how to use Ebay you could have asked, but on this occasion the friend did it so you can only presume you didnt!
    Money makes the world go mad, the world go mad, the world go mad!
    • Skeenfleent
    • By Skeenfleent 25th Feb 09, 12:54 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Skeenfleent
    The person who offered to sell it on ebay should pay for it. I'm no ebay expert, but the cost of recorded delivery is hardly prohibitive of using it every time, especially for something valuable like an ipod.

    If your friend didn't know how to properly use ebay, then they shouldn't have offered, as you might have made a better job of it, etc.

    Also, the friend would have to put in a claim with Royal Mail, even for normal First Class post, in case it genuinely turns up for some reason. Then everyone's relatively happy.

    If your friend is the type of person to not want to pay for their mistakes, and rather argue with you over it to the point that you might have bad blood, then it's a reflection on the depth of the relationship, unfortunately. Certainly not the kind of one to take that level of risk over in the first place when offering to do the selling...
    For all you know they could have sold the ipod on the side themselves and never posted it (not that you'd want to be friends with someone who you'd even consider capable of this, but technically it's possible).

    Ultimately you could go 50/50 on the cost to keep things even in the relationship, but it was the responsibility of the seller, plain and simple.
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