Civil enforcement PCN - moved house missed PCN - LBC

Hi,
Received first communication, a "Letter before action -  CLAIM FOR DEBT"  from Civil enforcement Ltd (CEL) PPC "legal team" dated 3-Feb-2021 for parking violation in my GP surgery car park for £182. Date of incident stated was 2-Dec-2019 and we moved house during Dec-19 and it took couple of months for me to change V5C address so looks like I missed the PCN and some debt collection letters (confirmed after SAR).

After reading newbie thread, complained to landlord who confirmed one of our family member had an appointment for that day and time and use of car park was legitimate.
GP Practice manager tried cancelling the PCN but said CEL system was not allowing with message "cannot cancel as case is handled by CEL Legal department".
In the meantime, appealed as "registered keeper" using template in newbie forum via CEL website. After a week received refusal letter stating "it is too late to appeal" (they sent photos of car entering and leaving the car park with timestamps).
Raised a SAR last week and received copies of PCN, 2 debt collection letters, LBC, photos of car entering and leaving the car park with timestamps.
Emailed their legal team to update "service address" and asked them to cancel the PCN as client landlord has confirmed car park use was legitimate for which they replied "Following the violation the DVLA provided us with your name and address as the registered keeper of the vehicle. The address provided by the DVLA was that of <old address>. As you are no doubt aware, pursuant to s18 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002, it is the motorist’s duty to ensure that the DVLA is immediately informed of any change of address. As no response was received to any of our correspondence and in line with section 24.1 of the BPA Code of Practice (this states that we should take 'reasonable endeavours to ensure that the contact details for the person you are writing to are correct'), we carried out an address check which indicated you had moved to the address of <New address>.
Although we have incurred significant further expenses at this stage, as a gesture of goodwill, we will accept the original PCN sum of £100 in full and final settlement providing payment is made by 4pm on 20/04/2021"
I only have screenshots of my messages with GP practice manager as they have this weird system where you ask questions via website and receive email with link to reply messages which expire after few days. Also I'm 100% certain I've always entered my reg number in GP surgery during appointments. There was one time where they asked us to write down in a notebook when system to input reg number was down.
I'm unsure how to proceed further  - help please !!!
Thanks
RV







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Replies

  • edited 6 April at 3:05PM
    FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    edited 6 April at 3:05PM
    Complain again to the GP surgery manager/senior GP/head honcho and also the chair of the patient participation group if they have one.
    Complain to your MP and to Boris. (I am serious) He said a while ago he was going to put a stop to this sort of thing at NHS facilities.
    I would also contact local and national press about this unregulated scam.

    Read and follow the guide to court written by bargepole that is in the second post of the NEWBIES.

    Get pics of the site and signage.

    Complain to the surgery, complain, and complain again.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • edited 6 April at 5:35PM
    RvvRvv Forumite
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    edited 6 April at 5:35PM
    Thanks @Fruitcake - I've complained few times to the GP, they have stopped responding to my messages now - and I'm not allowed to visit the surgery due to COVID restriction.  I've now raised an official complaint through their complaints procedure as stated in their website.
    Question - Since I appealed late (after 28 days) does it mean now I can't appeal to POPLA? I didn't see any POPLA code in PPC's respone to my unsuccessful online appeal
    Thanks
    RV
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    LOL, considerable expense my bum.  The DVLA look up cost £2.50.

    An Equifax or similar Trace, costs between 23p - 40p.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • RvvRvv Forumite
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    Received the claim form from CEL last week - completed Acknowledgement of Service.
    Planning to complete my defence this week. Will post my questions on defence prep, if any, in this thread.
    Thanks all
  • Le_KirkLe_Kirk Forumite
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    Rvv said:
    Received the claim form from CEL last week - completed Acknowledgement of Service.
    Planning to complete my defence this week. Will post my questions on defence prep, if any, in this thread.
    Thanks all
    What was the issue date of the N1 claim form and when did you complete the AoS?  If you post that information @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and other info about submitting a defence.  when you have adjusted paragraphs 2 & 3 of the standard template defence, post here ONLY those two paragraphs.
  • RvvRvv Forumite
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    Thanks @Le_Kirk
    The issue date on N1 claim form is 17-May and I did the AOS today.
    Sure, will post only paragraphs 2&3 once I complete them.
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    Rvv said:
    The issue date on N1 claim form is 17-May and I did the AOS today.

    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th May, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 21st June 2021 to file your Defence.
    That's almost four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.
    To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.
    Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.
  • edited 13 June at 3:24PM
    RvvRvv Forumite
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    edited 13 June at 3:24PM
    Hello,
    Many thanks for all the help so far. I'm in the process of writing up my defence this week.
    In SAR response, PPC stated they're attaching "all" the correspondence relating to the PCN. In the pdf, I see PCN first followed by 2 debt collection letters ("Debt collection Notice" followed by "Notice of Intended Legal Collections" ). I'm wondering which of this is an NTK?
    Edit: Complained to my MP as well this week. The more I think about this I'm certain PCN was because of that one day where system was down and GP office asked me to write it down on a notepad (this is not a confirmation bias :smile: ). I've asked GP office about 4 times now and I didn't receive a straight answer !
    Thanks,
    Rvv
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    Rvv said:

    In SAR response, PPC stated they're attaching "all" the correspondence relating to the PCN. In the pdf, I see PCN first followed by 2 debt collection letters ("Debt collection Notice" followed by "Notice of Intended Legal Collections" ). I'm wondering which of this is an NTK?
    The Notice to Keeper is the first Notice sent to the Keeper by the parking company.

  • edited 13 June at 3:38PM
    RvvRvv Forumite
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    edited 13 June at 3:38PM
    @KeithP, Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to see if PCN failed to comply with any of the PoFA schedule 4 NTK clauses.
    Anyway here is my draft defence, any feedback will be much appreciated.
    2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. The Defendant's use of the car park, cited in the claim for unauthorised parking, was in fact authorised by the client landlord and was confirmed in writing to that effect.
    3. Every time the car park was used, the vehicle registration number was input by the Defendant in to the iPad tablet in place. The client landlord tried cancelling the Penalty Charge Notice but the Claimant's IT system did not permit it. The Defendant then forwarded client landlord's confirmation to the Claimant and requested that the PCN be cancelled but the Claimant denied the request and sought the original sum of £100 stated in the notice as a gesture of goodwill. The Defendant believes this to be unfair and abuse of process, given that the alleged breach of contract did not happen.

    I'm unsure if mentioning the house move and missing the initial PCN/28 days grace period would be useful - any thoughts ?
    Also when i requested SAR, PPC did not ask for any identification - they straight away responded with PCN with my name and address. Is that a breach of Data Protection Act in any way? (I couldn't tell after reading link)

    After reading schedule 4 of PoFA and BPA code (Jan 2018 and 2020) I'm not feeling very optimistic. BPA 21.2 (20.2 in Jan-2018 version) stood out in particular
    You can do this (claim payment from keeper) whether the parking originally took place under the terms of a contract or was an act of trespass.
    Thanks
    Rvv
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