county claim form vehicle control services ltd

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  • merits28merits28 Forumite
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    Did it look like a free car park?  Why are you not saying that?
    Yes it was an hour free parking.  Please let me know if I should add that it was 1 hour free car park. Thank you 
  • edited 3 April at 7:33PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 3 April at 7:33PM
    No, of course you don't, I crossed that bit out.  Think about it, why would you say it was clearly 1 hour free?
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  • merits28merits28 Forumite
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    No, of course you don't, I crossed that bit out.  Think about it, why would you say it was clearly 1 hour free?
    Ok , so my edited paragraph 2 and 3 is good now? Or should I add anything else to it? So I can send it off to the court. Thank you. 
  • edited 1 August at 8:59AM
    RedxRedx Forumite
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    edited 1 August at 8:59AM
    merits28 said:
    No, of course you don't, I crossed that bit out.  Think about it, why would you say it was clearly 1 hour free?
    Ok , so my edited paragraph 2 and 3 is good now? Or should I add anything else to it? So I can send it off to the court. Thank you. 
    At the moment there is no court , only the CCBC who sent you the postal claim pack

    You will nominate your local court in several weeks time , by email

    You won't be sending anything off. , You will be emailing the defence to the CCBC using the ccbcaq email address , as a pdf attachment , a mentioned by KeithP and in the defence template
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
  • merits28merits28 Forumite
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    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Redx said:
    merits28 said:
    No, of course you don't, I crossed that bit out.  Think about it, why would you say it was clearly 1 hour free?
    Ok , so my edited paragraph 2 and 3 is good now? Or should I add anything else to it? So I can send it off to the court. Thank you. 
    At the moment there is no court , only the CCBC who sent you the postal claim pack

    You will nominate your !oval court in several weeks time , by email

    You won't be sending anything off. , You will be emailing the defence to the CCBC using the ccbcaq email address , as a pdf attachment
    Yes I meant CCBC,  and yes I will save as pdf and email it to them.  I will slot in my paragraphs #2 and #3 into the NEWBIES defence statement template tommorow and post it  here for a  confirmation from you guys before i email it to CCBC.  Thank you all .
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    merits28 said:
    Redx said:
    merits28 said:
    No, of course you don't, I crossed that bit out.  Think about it, why would you say it was clearly 1 hour free?
    Ok , so my edited paragraph 2 and 3 is good now? Or should I add anything else to it? So I can send it off to the court. Thank you. 
    At the moment there is no court , only the CCBC who sent you the postal claim pack

    You will nominate your !oval court in several weeks time , by email

    You won't be sending anything off. , You will be emailing the defence to the CCBC using the ccbcaq email address , as a pdf attachment
    Yes I meant CCBC,  and yes I will save as pdf and email it to them.  I will slot in my paragraphs #2 and #3 into the NEWBIES defence statement template tommorow and post it  here for a  confirmation from you guys before i email it to CCBC.  Thank you all .
    There's no need to copy and paste the whole shooting match of the defence - we don't need to see any of the standard paras unless you've altered them (not recommended) and then only the particular para with the edit highlighted. We are overwhelmed by enormous slabs of unnecessary text which we are being asked to check every day !

    Just paras 2 and 3 are needed. 

    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
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  • edited 4 April at 10:41AM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 4 April at 10:41AM
    Yes, just paras 2 and 3 are shown here, but of course the entire defence (signed & dated) is what you email to the CCBC AQ email address.

    If you have nothing else to add to the defence then you have nothing else to add.  You are the one that knows what happened, we don't.  I notice in your first post, you said ''i appealed and it failed'' so it would help if you showed us EXACTLY what facts you gave away in your appeal, please.  Your defence can't contradict that.
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  • merits28merits28 Forumite
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    Yes, just paras 2 and 3 are shown here, but of course the entire defence (signed & dated) is what you email to the CCBC AQ email address.

    If you have nothing else to add to the defence then you have nothing else to add.  You are the one that knows what happened, we don't.  I notice in your first post, you said ''i appealed and it failed'' so it would help if you showed us EXACTLY what facts you gave away in your appeal, please.  Your defence can't contradict that.
    Hello coupon- mad , thanks for asking me this. I appealed saying that one of the passenger was ill so. We delayed coming back to the car. And the appeal was refused.  I narrated all this in my first POST of defence statement and I was advised by one of the guys that those explanation was not needed now till witness statement stage . I will repost it for your viewing.  
  • merits28merits28 Forumite
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    10 Posts Name Dropper

    In the County Court Business Centre


    Claim Number: xxxxxxxx

    Between:

    xxxxxxxx (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

    Defence

    The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that a contract was entered into - by conduct or otherwise - whereby it was ‘agreed’ to pay a ‘parking charge’ and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue, nor to form contracts in their own name at the location.

    1.It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.

    2.The Defendant delayed in returning to their vehicle was caused by circumstances that were entirely unforeseen, unavoidable and exceptional. One of the passenger who had come to the UK for a visit had fallen ill, the passenger was having an episode because of health issues and needed some painkillers and at the time I was pregnant and on steroids and other medication because I was diagnosed with graves disease, I was also with my 3 young daughters and one of them has sickle cell disease and at a time when we were all worried about the COVID 19.

      3.Have appealed and my appeal was denied, vehicle control services sent me a form to fill out with my income, I immediately contacted them, telling them I have no income, I am pregnant and I have health issues and one of my daughters have health issues so we were asked by the government to shield so we had our food and medications delivered to our homes, but vehicle control services said I need to go out and post back the form or get someone to come to my house to help me post the form when no one was allowed into my house.

      4a.The signage at the entrance to the car park is especially unclear ” as it is situated on the left hand side at an angle and can not be seen from the inside of a vehicle

    1. edited 4 April at 12:17PM
      Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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      edited 4 April at 12:17PM
      The facts as known to the Defendant:

      2.  It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.  The Claimant is aware, from an appeal made at the time, that more than one occupant of the vehicle - including the Defendant driver - had long term medical conditions which would meet the definition of disability within the Equality Act 2010 ('the EA').  Knowing this at appeal stage, a car park operator has a statutory duty to allow a 'reasonable adjustment' of the fixed time period, in order to allow for the needs of those persons who have 'protected characteristics'.  


      3.  It is unlawful to apply the same parking time limit to persons with protected characteristics, as applies to able-bodied persons. This has been tested by Disabled Motoring UK, in legal cases pursued against both Lincoln and Norwich Councils, and comparable duties apply to Service Providers operating in private land car parks.  This right and the applicability of the EA  is made clear in the new statutory Parking Code of Practice, that is at final drafting stage in 2021, by the MHCLG, following the Government being forced to step in to regulate an out of control rogue industry which offered no truly independent appeal and ignored disability/consumer laws as if they did not exist.


      4.  Instead, the Claimant refused the Defendant's appeal with a template response.  The statutory duty to allow more time - not just to remove physical barriers - as a 'reasonable adjustment' (either in advance, at the time or retrospectively when a person's needs come to light) is explained in more detail in the EHRC Code of Practice for Service Providers which forms part of the statutory rules of the EA itself and is not advisory.  It is also not necessary for a Service Provider to know about a person's needs in advance and it is no justification against indirect discrimination (caused by an inflexible policy) to say 'we didn't know'.  This Claimant knew, or ought to have known about the EA applying in this case, from the point of the appeal, which was the earliest stage at which a driver is afforded the opportunity to provide such information.   Given the needs of the occupants, the remedy was for the Claimant to recognise that the EA would apply and to extend the time limit for this vehicle and to cancel the parking charge.


      5. .Any delay in returning to the vehicle was caused by circumstances that were entirely unforeseen, unavoidable and exceptional and were directly attributable to the medical conditions of the occupants of the car.  One of the passengers who had come to the UK for a visit had fallen ill; this passenger was having an episode because of long-term chronic health issues and was slower-moving than an able-bodied person.  When they did manage to return to the car, they needed painkillers before the Defendant could drive away.  Further, at the time, the Defendant was pregnant and on steroids and other medication due to a diagnosis of Graves Disease.  This is not connected to pregnancy, is a long-term condition and causes tremors, tiredness and fatigue.  Also, the Defendant was with her 3 young daughters, one of whom has sickle cell disease which also causes fatigue, among other symptoms.  There is no doubt that the EA applies in this case and as a parking operator with decades of membership of trade bodies (the BPA and then then IPC) the Claimant cannot be heard to say that the appeal was merely a case of mitigation.  It was a matter of law, even if the Defendant was not in a position to voice it as such at the time.


      6.   The Defendant parked at this car park to go to the shops at the moor markets and saw nothing to suggest that there were contractual terms for parking at the location.  There is a lot of foliage obscuring any signs and the purported 'entrance sign' is especially unclear as it is situated on the left hand side at an angle and can not be seen from the inside of a vehicle, which is the entire point of mandatory entrance signs. The IPC Trade Body Code says ''Signs must fixed in place and must be immediately apparent to the Motorist that they convey important information regarding the Private Land upon which they are placed'' and ''the signage within the Car Park must be such as to be obvious to the Motorist''.  This is denied.  Notwithstanding the requirement to allow more time for persons with protected characteristics (which was never offered by the Claimant) there was no agreed contract at all, because the terms were not clearly communicated.

      How about the above?  You will need to re-number all the template points that follow.
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