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Can you complain about possible incompetence (urologist)

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  • edited 20 December 2020 at 2:36PM
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]
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    edited 20 December 2020 at 2:36PM
    I don't know anything about your condition, but I'm wondering if this is a downgrading of priorities due to the covid workload. My experience of asking for second opinions is that you'll likely find that you're summarily shooed out of the door by a doctor who has already been told what diagnosis is required before you walked in.

    With regard to complaining, it depends what you're looking for, if you're looking for platitudes like "We're very sorry you feel that way" you'll be highly delighted, otherwise not. Make no mistake, there will be no quick resolution if you go down that road, mine is in it's sixth year, and still unresolved. The statute of limitations for healthcare is 3 years, so they spin it out at least that long so that you're legal options are closed by the time they fob you off. You will find it stressful like you would never believe, and quickly learn how naive you were for trusting whoever it was that you trusted. You will also find there are consequences, at best you will be labelled a troublemaker and get smeared, at worst you will face revenge. I've been harmed several times now, and here's the false dementia diagnosis they placed on my record eight days after they received my complaint:If you're thinking of complaining, read all this very carefully before you start. It's all good information that you can trust, from people who have gone before you and know the ropes.
    phsothetruestory – PHSOtheFACTS
    Finally, if you need support, you will find an active community on twitter. @phsothefacts
  • unforeseenunforeseen Forumite
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    You need to find out whether interventional radiology are operating normally or just doing emergencies
  • FlossFloss Forumite
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    Was the urologist a registrar or consultant? And if consultant was he a senior one? Have a look on the GMC website for his info, then go back to the hospital & email the Clinical Director for Surgery cc the Medical Director and ask to see another urologist. Be concise but clear in your email - similar to your post above - and ask for an acknowledgement of your request before 24th December. 
  • fred246fred246 Forumite
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    I think there is a TV programme that deals with this sort of problem. People that are too embarrassed to see their GP can go on it. Should get good treatment.
  • edited 20 December 2020 at 9:48PM
    MalMonroeMalMonroe Forumite
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    edited 20 December 2020 at 9:48PM
    If you want to make a complaint about the NHS or a consultant or anything else, you can contact the PALS service, link here -
    https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/hospitals/what-is-pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

    Scroll down and there's another link where you can search for the PALS nearest to you.

    They will either be able to help you, or point you in the right direction.

    Good luck with everything!
  • UndervaluedUndervalued Forumite
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    fred246 said:
    I think there is a TV programme that deals with this sort of problem. People that are too embarrassed to see their GP can go on it. Should get good treatment.
    I think you will find the program you refer to stopped being made some years ago, following some well publicised controversy surrounding one of the doctors / presenters. Repeats are still being shown on some Freeview channels. Maybe there is a current similar program I am unaware of?

    It always struck me as an odd concept that if you found something too embarrassing to see your own GP about, you would be willing to have it filmed and broadcast on prime time TV!
  • jack_pott said:
    I don't know anything about your condition, but I'm wondering if this is a downgrading of priorities due to the covid workload. My experience of asking for second opinions is that you'll likely find that you're summarily shooed out of the door by a doctor who has already been told what diagnosis is required before you walked in.

    With regard to complaining, it depends what you're looking for, if you're looking for platitudes like "We're very sorry you feel that way" you'll be highly delighted, otherwise not. Make no mistake, there will be no quick resolution if you go down that road, mine is in it's sixth year, and still unresolved. The statute of limitations for healthcare is 3 years, so they spin it out at least that long so that you're legal options are closed by the time they fob you off. You will find it stressful like you would never believe, and quickly learn how naive you were for trusting whoever it was that you trusted. You will also find there are consequences, at best you will be labelled a troublemaker and get smeared, at worst you will face revenge. I've been harmed several times now, and here's the false dementia diagnosis they placed on my record eight days after they received my complaint:If you're thinking of complaining, read all this very carefully before you start. It's all good information that you can trust, from people who have gone before you and know the ropes.
    phsothetruestory – PHSOtheFACTS
    Finally, if you need support, you will find an active community on twitter. @phsothefacts
    To be fair, it was going to be more of a complaint to my GP to speed things a long to someone a bit more understanding then a full-blown complaint.
    That's how my problems all started. In 1997 I made a fairly informal complaint about a breach of confidence, and just got fobbed off with a pack of lies. As I had no evidence to prove it, I didn't see that there was anything I could do other than suck it up.

    Many years later in 2012 I was blue lighted into A&E and diagnosed with a heart arrhythmia, all documented with ECGs signed and labelled with the diagnosis by the consultant, and a letter sent to my GP. Then when I fetched up at cardiology outpatients, they denied that they had ever seen anything wrong, and denied that I had even been taken to A&E at all. I gave them my own copies of the ECGs and diagnosis letter, but they were ignored and never placed in my records, and the denial continued for months. This is the incident I complained about. 

    Unlike previously though, I had evidence. I had all the documents proving the diagnosis, and all the letters denying it, and since I now never go anywhere near the NHS without a recorder in my pocket, I also had recordings of the doctors lying. Unfortunately none of that makes any difference, because the PHSO just ignored it all, without comment, and without explanation. On the other hand, the NHS account of events was mere speculation, and was accepted at face value with no supporting evidence offered whatsoever. PHSO records show how they were coaching the NHS in what to say so that they could find an excuse to reject the complaint, but unfortunately they didn't release the documents until after the complaint had already been closed, which is contrary to their own published professional standards. You will learn that rules and guidelines are to be observed when they're to the advantage of the NHS, and ignored when they benefit the patient.

    The catch-all rule that they can wheel out any time they like is paragraph 7.66 of the PHSO Service Model Main Guidance:
    "Where we have found that an injustice arose in consequence of maladministration or service failure but that it was fully remedied before the complaint was received by the Ombudsman then a complaint will not be upheld."
    So the bank robber can stand in the dock and tell the judge that he did rob a million pounds from Barclays, but since he's now stopped robbing banks, that's ok.

    People on here have referred to PALS. Don't be taken in by them, they are there to look after the NHS and nobody else. They will fob you off and stab you in the back with a smile and lots of sweet-talking PR platitudes. They are the ones who are liaising with the PHSO to get their story straight. You may discover that you have a statutory right to help from one of the advocacy services. They purport to be assisting you to draft your complaint, but they are feeding intelligence on your position back to the NHS. The Patients Association published a series of scathing reports into the complaints system, commissioned by Chief Executive Katherine Murphy a few years ago. She mysteriously disappeared shortly afterwards, along with all her reports. The PA are 70% funded by corporate healthcare interests, including the NHS.

    A couple of years ago PHSOthefacts submitted a file to Scotland Yard alleging 30 cases of Misconduct in Public Office against the PHSO. The case was dropped, not because the allegations were unfounded, but because Section 11 of the Parliamentary Commissioners Act 1967 places the Ombudsman above the law. The police have no powers to investigate, or even to access PHSO files. If you think you will complain to your MP about the PHSO, you can't do that, because the PHSO is the one who's supposed to be policing the MPs.
    I'd very much like to publish the evidence I've referred to above, but others have been threatened with the Official Secrets Act for doing that.

    If you decide to go ahead, a word or two about time limits. The first you need to know is the one year limit on complaining to the NHS, miss this and you're stuck. The next is a one year limit on filing a complaint to the PHSO, you must be within that limit, but you are obliged to wait for a final reply from the NHS first. The NHS know this of course, so they will attempt to run you out of time by delaying their final response until it's too late. Don't let them, get your application to the PHSO in before the deadline. They will reject it as premature at this stage, but you now have the ammunition you need when the final reply turns up late. The other deadline is the statute of limitations mentioned previously. There is a three year limit on taking legal action, and since you are prevented from suing the NHS simultaneously with a PHSO investigation, they will wait until the SoL has expired before they reject your complaint.


  • prowlaprowla Forumite
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    I say they're taking the p155.
  • unforeseenunforeseen Forumite
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    MalMonroe said:
    If you want to make a complaint about the NHS or a consultant or anything else, you can contact the PALS service, link here -
    https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/hospitals/what-is-pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

    Scroll down and there's another link where you can search for the PALS nearest to you.

    They will either be able to help you, or point you in the right direction.

    Good luck with everything!
    Unfortunately the PALS complaint route is effectively stalled at the moment. They are not progressing any complaints during the pandemic. 
  • MarkN88MarkN88 Forumite
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    MalMonroe said:
    If you want to make a complaint about the NHS or a consultant or anything else, you can contact the PALS service, link here -
    https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/hospitals/what-is-pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

    Scroll down and there's another link where you can search for the PALS nearest to you.

    They will either be able to help you, or point you in the right direction.

    Good luck with everything!
    Unfortunately the PALS complaint route is effectively stalled at the moment. They are not progressing any complaints during the pandemic. 
    I’ve just had one dealt with by PALS. 
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