FTTP-On Demand?

J_BJ_B Forumite
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Apologies for hijacking <<Moving House - What Internet Do I Get?>> https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6219568/moving-house-what-internet-do-i-get
We are 2 miles from the exchange and unable to get fibre.
A nearby agri-business has had FTTP installed about 2 years ago. The 'man in the pub' reckoned that they had installed over 20 poles and it had cost him over 100K
On the road 50m from our house is a pole that supplies the above business.

The man in the pub also told us that it was an exclusive line and that we would be unable to connect to it.
Last week on our daily exercise there were two Openreach guys replacing a part of the copper line that supplies us and our neighbours. Chatting to one he said that we could certainly connect to it.
Does anyone with more knowledge than me know whether it would be possible to connect to this?
We currently use airband which gives us around 30Mbps but is sometimes a little unreliable.
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Replies

  • edited 29 November 2020 at 2:06PM
    iniltousiniltous Forumite
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    edited 29 November 2020 at 2:06PM
    The pole in the photo has an anti creepage device, commonly used for overhead fibre , but that could be for the business that paid for the leased line....if that’s the only ‘fibre’ close by then chances are that native FTTP wouldn’t be available , you could obviously check by using the BTw checker and your address ( if you have a ‘BT’ phone number it’s more accurate but you probably don’t have one ) 

    https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
    FTTPod is different , if the checker shows that it’s available, you approach an ISP that offers it ( not many do, and those that do you may not have heard of ) , they can get a desk based survey done , and ‘ballpark’ costs are provided, if they are tempting enough for you to want to proceed, you pay for a contractual survey where the actual construction price is provided , if you proceed you pay the costs and the construction proceeds, if you pull out the survey fee is forfeited by you ( around £300 ), the fact that a fibre leased line exists nearby may reduce costs , or may not, as FTTPod is from an aggregation node , generally fibre  leased lines are not, so if the leased line cost the company thousands ££’s, chances are it won’t help you, but if you wanted a leased line it may, but leased lines are priced differently to FTTP and FTTPod
  • ZellahZellah Forumite
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    The nearby business with FTTP is highly likely to be a leased line which indeed is exclusively for the premises which it feeds and is of no benefit to anyone else. If 'FTTP On Demand' - which is nothing to do with leased lines - shows up for your address on the BT Checker then by all means go ahead and get a quote from an ISP such as Cerberus Networks. However the costs could well run into the £10000s if you're far way from the nearest fibre aggregation node. 
  • BrowntoaBrowntoa Forumite, Board Guide
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    If he paid for the installation and it's on his land then it may well be his property and not available to anyone else from the openreach last point
    Links in my signature currently broken
    I'm the Board Guide of the ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to [email protected] Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.[
  • edited 29 November 2020 at 2:51PM
    ZellahZellah Forumite
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    edited 29 November 2020 at 2:51PM
    Browntoa said:
    If he paid for the installation and it's on his land then it may well be his property and not available to anyone else from the openreach last point
    Not true if its a FTTPoD install. In which case the fibre DP (Openreach last point) is likely to be on public land and can be used for neighbouring connections. But a moot point, as the nearby business is almost certainly on a leased line which is a totally different kettle of fish to standard FTTP or FTTP On Demand. Its exclusively for the use of the ordering customer, no matter how close the infrastructure is to neighbouring premises.
  • edited 29 November 2020 at 3:39PM
    matelodavematelodave Forumite
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    edited 29 November 2020 at 3:39PM
    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/openreach-tweak-fttp-on-demand-pricing-and-adds-new-speeds.html have read of this and it may be useful to have a search of the web. 
    Running in a single fibre to your premises is going to be very expensive if the basic infrastructure is not available in the vicinity, the fact that there may be fibres in a local cabinet or a pole that goes past your house does not necessarily mean that suitable aggregation nodes and optical spliitters are also available either to serve you or that there are facilities for multiple fibre connections in the serving exchange. Although you might be able to serve multiple customers on a single fibre you need quite a bit of kit at each end to enable it.

    Although FTTPod may be available it might be everso expensive, a cost that many business may be willing to pay (especially if they can offset some of it against tax) you might find it too expensive for single resident.
    You really do need to explore what is on offer and perhaps if you can get enough people interested then it might become viable but dont expect it to be easy.

    We were lucky as we came under the "Connecting Cambridgeshire" umbrella but it still took from October 2012 to April 2018 before we actually got it. I did a lot of canvassing and lobbying, attended many CC meetings several CC and canvassed our area (leaflet dropping and knocking on doors etc) to get people to express their interest (and very hard work it was too as many people were happy with what they already had- even though it was less than 2mbit/s) 
    https://www.connectingcambridgeshire.co.uk/

    The physical work involved in actually providing it entailed clearing ducts, road excavations, renewing poles, stringing overhead cables, splicing and testing took the best part of nine months before we actually got switched on at the end of March 2018. However within about a month of it being availabe at least 20 people to my knowledge took it up. There were OR vans and cherry-pickers almost evry day for about three weeks connecting us up.

    BTW our nearest fibre enabled cabinet is just over three miles away and the exchange is another two

    Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
  • J_BJ_B Forumite
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    Thanks all
    Trying to answer all the questions (and assuming that the OR guy I spoke to was incorrect) yes, I guess that local business is a leased line.
    The pole in the photo is on a neighbour's land, the three previous poles along the line are on my land which OR pay me a way-leave
    The exchange is in the village two miles away. There is a fibre sub-exchange (I'm sure there's a proper name for it!) in the next hamlet but that is maybe ½mile past the turn down 'our road' which leads to only five houses at the end the line from our exchange. The Agribusiness is another mile along this road. Not really sure why he took fibre from 'our' exchange for three miles when the main town one is a similar distance.
    broadbandchecker tells me that FTTP is not available.
    I already had a quote from Cerberus two years ago ......
    Dear Customer
    Thank you for requesting an estimate of the installation costs for FTTP on Demand at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.
    Estimated Build Cost: £13,700.00 ex VAT  
    The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.
    Number of premises passed for FTTP: 4
    The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build. Customers at these premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs.
    Please note that this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.
    To proceed with an order, you must pay the £250.00 ex VAT survey charge. The survey has a lead time of at least 4 weeks. After the survey, you will have 28 days to accept or reject the confirmed build charge.

  • J_BJ_B Forumite
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    J_B said:
    I already had a quote from Cerberus two years ago ......

    I followed this up again with Cerberus and have just got this reply ....

    Dear Customer
    Thank you for requesting an estimate of the installation costs for FTTP on Demand at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.
    Estimated Build Cost: Unable to offer an estimate using desk survey tools. Onsite survey required to confirm charges   
    The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.
    Number of premises passed for FTTP: Unknown (Subject to survey)
    Please note that, where provided, this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.
    The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.
    The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build. Customers at these premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs. If you wish to consider starting a Linked Order, you can find information on how to do so in the guide attached.
    To proceed with an order, you must pay the £250.00 ex VAT survey charge. The survey charge is non-refundable in the event of cancellation and will apply to all orders.
    ...........
    If you have any questions about the FTTPoD service please contact the sales team on 0345 257 1333 or at [email protected]
    Thanks again for your interest in this service.
    Cerberus Networks

    They were able to provide an estimate in two years ago ... but now they can't!
    Is it 'computer says no' or is it worth perusing (don't really want to spend 250+vat to be given another 10K quote!)

  • bengalknightsbengalknights Forumite
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    J_B said:
    J_B said:
    I already had a quote from Cerberus two years ago ......

    I followed this up again with Cerberus and have just got this reply ....

    Dear Customer
    Thank you for requesting an estimate of the installation costs for FTTP on Demand at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.
    Estimated Build Cost: Unable to offer an estimate using desk survey tools. Onsite survey required to confirm charges   
    The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.
    Number of premises passed for FTTP: Unknown (Subject to survey)
    Please note that, where provided, this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.
    The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.
    The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build. Customers at these premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs. If you wish to consider starting a Linked Order, you can find information on how to do so in the guide attached.
    To proceed with an order, you must pay the £250.00 ex VAT survey charge. The survey charge is non-refundable in the event of cancellation and will apply to all orders.
    ...........
    If you have any questions about the FTTPoD service please contact the sales team on 0345 257 1333 or at [email protected]
    Thanks again for your interest in this service.
    Cerberus Networks

    They were able to provide an estimate in two years ago ... but now they can't!
    Is it 'computer says no' or is it worth perusing (don't really want to spend 250+vat to be given another 10K quote!)

    It will most likely be due to the wayleaves the computer cant calculate as it can see some access that it may be able to utlise, hence the subject to survey.
  • edited 10 December 2020 at 6:58PM
    iniltousiniltous Forumite
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    edited 10 December 2020 at 6:58PM
    TBH , if you have already had an desk based estimate, even if it were using the older distance based bands, they could simply dig out the previous ‘survey’ notes , perhaps they saw that the address had previously had a desk based quote and effectively are saying you already know the estimated cost....even a desk based survey costs OR ‘money’ the planners time is a cost to the business, they quite reasonably may dismiss multiple requests for the same address as a waste of their time and are saying if really interested, it’s time to show commitment, by paying for a proper survey, a for sale advert for a Car may say ‘no tyre kickers please’, it may be the equivalent of that.
  • J_BJ_B Forumite
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    Yes, I fully understand, but my original quote was two years ago and things change rapidly in the digital world, but even if the cost had halved to 8K that's still not very MSE :p
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