New power of attorney guide

Keep_pedalling · 4 October 2020 at 8:46AM

A lick of paint to help sell would be fine, but you would probably find the costs to bring the house up to rentable standards would be much higher so I don’t think reservation is likely to be something you should consider.

Plan_for_success · 19 October 2020 at 11:52AM

Drawing up both health and property LPAs for myself (divorced, no partner, fit and healthy, early fifties, children 18+) using my siblings as attorneys, with the kids as replacements. Wondering how detailed I need to make the preferences and/or instructions, as the guidance I'm using gives very generic and bland statements for either. Should I mention specific insurances to be accessed, stop paying certain direct debits, by way of just a couple of examples?

Primrose · 19 October 2020 at 12:45PM

If it,s appropriate, direct that no savings should be amalgamated Into accounts which take them over the governments financial compensation level (even though one single savings account might be more convenient for yiur attorneys to administer. Direct your attorneys to apply for any government benefits to which you might be entitled (attendance allowance, etc).

Yes, direct debits can be cancelled if you go into care and no longer need your Sky subscription at home, or monthly magazines etc, or Ongoing donations to charities if money is getting tight.

On the Health LPA state whether your attorneys may have access to your medical records and may liaise with medics on youR behalf and make life or death decisions on treatment for you or decisions to avoid surgery if it would have little benefits for short term life gain. When complete, lodge a copy of your Health LPA with your GP surgery too.

Carefully think though a lot of potential scenarios before printing off the final version.

The oThe really helpful thing for attorneys is a regularly updated list (possibly on a spreadsheet of some kind) with a list of all your household service providers, utilities etc) with contact numbers and account references, as well as banks, account numbers, Plus Life, Hiusehold, car insurance policies, pensions, GP, Dentist etc.

if you ever have to completely take over somebody,s personal affairs it can be a MASSIVE task trying to ferret out all this I formation whixh is usually scattered over numerous household cupboards and drawers, so providing your attorneys with a regularly updated list is the least yiu can do to make their lives easier.

Now your children are adults I,m wondering why you didn,t appoint your children and siblings all jointly and severally as attorneys. Your present plans mean your siblings could make decisions which vastly disadvantage your children whilst claiming they are in your best interests, which may indeed be the cas as its yiur interests they have to be concerned with. Is this what you really want to happen? (The sale of yiur hiuse could be involved If yiu have to go I to care. . Are your children still living I. It. You my feel your siblings are able to make more mature judgements, in which case this is perfectly fine but just be aware of potential future issues.

Malthusian · 19 October 2020 at 1:56PM

Plan_for_success said:

Drawing up both health and property LPAs for myself (divorced, no partner, fit and healthy, early fifties, children 18+) using my siblings as attorneys, with the kids as replacements. Wondering how detailed I need to make the preferences and/or instructions, as the guidance I'm using gives very generic and bland statements for either. Should I mention specific insurances to be accessed, stop paying certain direct debits, by way of just a couple of examples?

For the property one, leave them blank. Unless there's something very specific you want done that won't be done without it. Especially gifts (e.g. "I want my attorneys to continue making gifts of £X to my grandchildren each Christmas and birthday") as these are difficult for attorneys to make if the donor hasn't confirmed their wishes.

If you think your attorneys won't do a good job unless you try to handhold them in advance via the preferences / instructions sections, appoint different attorneys.

For the property and finance POA, preferences / instructions can often be useless at best and have unintended consequences at worst.
That doesn't apply as much to the health / welfare POA where your preferences may be more personal.

Primrose said:

If it,s appropriate, direct that no savings should be amalgamated Into accounts which take them over the governments financial compensation level (even though one single savings account might be more convenient for yiur attorneys to administer. Direct your attorneys to apply for any government benefits to which you might be entitled (attendance allowance, etc).

Neither of those need to be included in the POA (the atorneys can do those things anyway) and the first in particular might cause your attorneys a headache. For example, if it was worded in such a way that it appeared to apply to investments as well as cash deposits. (For investments, FSCS coverage is virtually irrelevant, but it nonetheless exists, so a loosely worded instruction that "my savings should not be held in an account exceeding the compensation level" would arguably - depending on your definition of "savings" - force your attorneys into unnecessary duplication and expense, opening multiple accounts where one would do the job with no material risk.)

Primrose said:

Now your children are adults I,m wondering why you didn,t appoint your children and siblings all jointly and severally as attorneys. Your present plans mean your siblings could make decisions which vastly disadvantage your children whilst claiming they are in your best interests, which may indeed be the cas as its yiur interests they have to be concerned with. Is this what you really want to happen? (The sale of yiur hiuse could be involved If yiu have to go I to care. . Are your children still living I. It.

If Plan_for_success went into care in that scenario their house would have to be sold whether the children were active attorneys or not - unless PFS left specific instructions to the contrary in the POA. The children would be violating their duties if they tried to hang on to their free housing while preventing their parent's capital from being used in their best interest. If it became necessary to sell the house to fund PFS' care fees it would be sold regardless of what the LPOA said.

I fully agree with leaving the attorneys an easily-accessible document showing all your financial affairs - bank accounts, investments, etc. Telling them to cancel your Sky subscription and wine club membership is not necessary, they can figure that out for themselves with a quick look through the last year's bank statements.

flower16 · 2 November 2020 at 11:16AM

Really disappointed that in 2020 some financial institutions still don’t have understanding or processes for attorneys. I have both health and financial and during capacity (for the financial). Following the donor being a widow they have asked for additional support. These documents are legally set up to be able to make applications for donors yet with one institution 13 weeks later still no saving account opened. Donor decided today to cancel as they can’t be doing with the hassle. C19 explains delays but not lack of due care to the potential customer.

forum2020 · 9 December 2020 at 10:13AM

Our house is presently in probate. we have received a power of attorney charging around £350 inclusive of vat. This PoA was only drawn up but not actioned as the person for whom this was drawn up for had passed away and their signature was needed. This charge is simply just for the executors drawing up the form is this correct. Should this fee charged allowed ?

ColinB · 9 December 2020 at 11:50AM

This is a little unclear, but I think what you're saying is that "someone" (it's not clear who that was, presumably a 3rd party) was engaged to set up a PoA for a donor who has sadly passed away before the PoA could be signed. "Someone" did the work so they are entitled to be paid. Who is responsible for paying that bill depends on who contracted with "someone" to do the work:

If you asked "someone" to do the work, then I think you're responsible for paying for it. You may be able to negotiate with them if it was clear that they continued expending effort after the deceased had passed away.
If it was the donor, then the fee payable to the "someone" is a debt that existed at the date of death: it needs to be included in the probate submission as a debt, and the executors have a responsibility to settle that debt. Normally it would be paid from the deceased's estate, the debtors may have to await the grant of probate and then the executors can settle it themselves.

As for whether £350 is reasonable, that would depend on what price was agreed when "someone" was asked to do the work. Do make sure they're not charging the registration fee, because that's only payable when you submit the PoA to the OPG.
Good luck

peteduk · 10 December 2020 at 2:07PM

Primrose wrote (on 19th October):
"On the Health LPA state whether your attorneys may have access to your medical records and may liaise with medics on your behalf and make life or death decisions on treatment for you or decisions to avoid surgery if it would have little benefits for short term life gain. When complete, lodge a copy of your Health LPA with your GP surgery too."
Having made Financial and Health LPAs I hope my wife and I didn't have to make the above statement in the health LPA. We would assume that this would be in place automatically, subject to any specific requirements which we didn't have.
I am most interested in the comment "When complete, lodge a copy of your Health LPA with your GP surgery too". I had heard of this before but when asking previously no-one else commented. Is it something our GPs would expect and know what to do with? Is there a specific advantage?
Thank you,
Pete

New power of attorney guide - Page 68

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New power of attorney guide

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