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"Balance brought forward" and landlord issues

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buffalowings777buffalowings777 Forumite
2 posts
First Post
MoneySaving Newbie

Many thanks in advance to whoever can help me here, i appreciate this is a long read so many apologies. So i live in apartment and i'm with SW energy, my landlord pays the water bill on my behalf and then periodically sends e a bunch of invoices and a total bill to reimburse him. However theres something i'm not quite sure about. My water usage is monitored by meter to which SE energy remotely check. Below shows some of the invoices i recieved off him recently...

18/07/19-17/08/2019 shows the following

  • Subtotal: £44.43
  • VAT: £1.25
  • Invoice total: 45.68
  • Balance forward: £0.00
  • Balance due: £45.68


The next months invoice (18/08/2019 - 17/09/2019) shows the following

  • Subtotal: £75.81
  • VAT: £2.21
  • Invoice total: £78.02
  • Balance forward: £150.71
  • Balance due: £228.73


The next months invoice (18/09/2019 - 17/10/2019) shows the following

  • Subtotal: £56.75
  • VAT: £1.81
  • Invoice total: £58.56
  • Balance forward: £210.31
  • Balance due: £268.87


The next months invoice (18/10/2019 - 17/11/2019) shows the following

  • Subtotal: £66.26
  • VAT: £2.21
  • Invoice total: £68.47
  • Balance forward: £ 268.87
  • Balance due: £ 337.34


The next months invoice (18/11/2019 - 17/12/2019) shows the following

  • Subtotal: £56.75
  • VAT: £1.81
  • Invoice total: £58.26
  • Balance forward: £337.34
  • Balance due: £395.90


The next months invoice (18/12/2019 - 17/01/2020) shows the following

  • Subtotal: £54.56
  • VAT: £1.85
  • Invoice total: £56.41
  • Balance forward: £395.90
  • Balance due: £452.31


the next month invoice is missing - landlord has not sent/given me the 18/01/2020 - 17/02/2020


The next months invoice (18/02/2020- 16/03/2020) shows the following

  • Subtotal: £51.54
  • VAT: £1.74
  • Invoice total: £53.28
  • Balance forward: £0.00
  • Balance due: £53.28


My landlord has sent me all the photocopied invoices for the months NOT stated here. And in all those invoices there was £0.00 for the “balance brought forward”. When i asked him to send me these, he was a bit reluctant (not answering my messages) but sent me them a few days ago (not sure what made him change his mind), and lo and behold all the ones i asked for had a high sum for balance brought forward”. What really stands out to me is this “balance brought forward” what is this? Why did is suddenly appear in the invoice of 18/08/2019 - 17/09/2019 and then disappear in 18/02/2020- 16/03/2020. And why is it so much? From what i understand my water bill is based on my actual consumption as i have a meter. Also why in the last invoice bill above (the period 18/02/2020- 16/03/2020) is the balance brought forward suddenly £0.00. Forgive my lack of knowledge (and suspicious mind) but is my landlord telling me something i should know? Like was their a debt on the water bill for which he was meant to be paying and now he's transferring that onto me? If not what is going on here? Could anyone please advise?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Replies

  • TalldaveTalldave Forumite
    1.7K posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭
    The  figures alone are meaningless.  Were your payments shown? What was itemised on the bills?

    FWIW I would never enter into a rental agreement without direct control of the bills. If he doesn't pay,  you get cut off. Get it changed or move?
  • buffalowings777buffalowings777 Forumite
    2 posts
    First Post
    MoneySaving Newbie
    Hi talldave thanks for your response. With regards to itemised on the bill, all that appears is the following:
    • Heat reading - will vary month to month
    • Hot water reading- will vary month to month
    • Cold water reading - will vary month to month
    • Sewerage charge - £5.15 approx month to month
    • Admin standing charge - Band 2% - 25% - £17.71 approx month to month
    • Water standing charge : £ 8.66 approx month to month
    As for the payments, they are not shown, instead he sends me the invoices in random batches (e.g. he'll send me 4 months worth of invoices, then randomly he'll send 6 months etc). And when i receive them he just lumps the total of the invoices together and asks me to pay him, to which i bank transfer to him with a covering reference. Yes i know this isnt the best way and i reckon i will be moving out when my term is up in a few months. Thanks for your help.
  • freeshafreesha Forumite
    142 posts
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Looks like he didn't pay the water bill for a while, hence there being a balance brought forward from the previous bills.
    By the way, what does this mean?
    • Hot water reading- will vary month to month
    • Cold water reading - will vary month to month
    Water companies don't provide or charge for hot water.

  • dogshomedogshome Forumite
    3.6K posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭
    Seems likely the OP's apartment is in a block that has a 'District Heating' scheme- One big boiler in the basement instead of one in each dwelling, quite common in Germany where the residents get good value, but this is the UK with little Govt. regulation, so the suppliers generally have the surname Turpin and ride  Black Horses.

    Water is VAT free, so can't understand the VAT charge at a very strange 3.1894273% !
    Best advice is sit out the lease term and then move put
  • Fly20Fly20 Forumite
    4 posts
    First Post
    MoneySaving Newbie
    Hi everyone, I need help. Being in a multi flats property, the landlord sent an estimated water bill out of the blue and this is not stated in the rent contract and when I asked him he said that everyone pays their share. So I do pay all bills myself including the council tax and gas/electric bills but can't work out how he is generating these water bills. Besides not all flats are same sizes as I am in a studio/CT A and other flats bigger than mine. I have asked him to provide me how he is allocating the water bill for my flat and he only stated that I am being childish! 
    So he generated another one yesterday (every 6 months) when I asked him now he is threatening to increase the rent again out of the blue. The contract is for a year and in middle of it and wanting to know what are my right/to do here? 
    Your help here is appreciated.
    Thanks.
    F.
  • freeshafreesha Forumite
    142 posts
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Fly20 said:
    Hi everyone, I need help. Being in a multi flats property, the landlord sent an estimated water bill out of the blue and this is not stated in the rent contract and when I asked him he said that everyone pays their share. So I do pay all bills myself including the council tax and gas/electric bills but can't work out how he is generating these water bills. Besides not all flats are same sizes as I am in a studio/CT A and other flats bigger than mine. I have asked him to provide me how he is allocating the water bill for my flat and he only stated that I am being childish! 
    So he generated another one yesterday (every 6 months) when I asked him now he is threatening to increase the rent again out of the blue. The contract is for a year and in middle of it and wanting to know what are my right/to do here? 
    Your help here is appreciated.
    Thanks.
    F.
    When you say estimated, is it definitely metered? Or assessed?
  • Fly20Fly20 Forumite
    4 posts
    First Post
    MoneySaving Newbie
    It is not metered not even assessed just a letter with a ££ to pay  When first asked him about the water bill, he generated an overall bill which is in ££££ then he said that it is broken down to the number of flats which are over 10 and none is equal size to the studio I occupy. So I asked him how he calculated then the figure he allocate to the flat I occupy then he said same as everyone else which I find not reasonable as these are not equal flats. In the contract, there is no clause which stating this only mentioned that the tenant is responsible for their usages bills to which I believe I do paying all bills of CT, electric and gas. But to now I don't know and don't understand this new generated water bill given none of other flats are similar/equal sizes and there is no way I will be using water usage to a property occupied by two or three people?
    Again to add to this, I am in a year contract and where he wants to increase the rent anytime I really do not get it and would like to know tenant's rights or what to do here.
    Thanks,
    F.
  • freeshafreesha Forumite
    142 posts
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    It cannot be estimated then, if it is on rateable value. He will have an actual amount set in stone for the coming year, which he should divide between all of you
  • Fly20Fly20 Forumite
    4 posts
    First Post
    MoneySaving Newbie
    Thanks freesha for getting back. To what I've seen is that there is a water bill with £££ total and no problem with that however its allocation to my studio place is what I am trying to get as there is no amount set for this. In addition, he said a figure then he wrote another figure twice different to which then it made me question what this is. Again, in the contract there is no where mentioned addition costs/charges for water. Could someone assist if this is reasonable? Also, how a general bill could be divided same while flats are different sizes ( I believe usage different two): studio, one/two bedroom flats? 
    Thanks,
    F.
  • pokorapokora Forumite
    13 posts
    10 Posts

    Many thanks in advance to whoever can help me here, i appreciate this is a long read so many apologies. So i live in apartment and i'm with SW energy, my landlord pays the water bill on my behalf and then periodically sends e a bunch of invoices and a total bill to reimburse him. However theres something i'm not quite sure about. My water usage is monitored by meter to which SE energy remotely check. Below shows some of the invoices i recieved off him recently...

    18/07/19-17/08/2019 shows the following

    • Subtotal: £44.43
    • VAT: £1.25
    • Invoice total: 45.68
    • Balance forward: £0.00
    • Balance due: £45.68


    The next months invoice (18/08/2019 - 17/09/2019) shows the following

    • Subtotal: £75.81
    • VAT: £2.21
    • Invoice total: £78.02
    • Balance forward: £150.71
    • Balance due: £228.73


    The next months invoice (18/09/2019 - 17/10/2019) shows the following

    • Subtotal: £56.75
    • VAT: £1.81
    • Invoice total: £58.56
    • Balance forward: £210.31
    • Balance due: £268.87


    The next months invoice (18/10/2019 - 17/11/2019) shows the following

    • Subtotal: £66.26
    • VAT: £2.21
    • Invoice total: £68.47
    • Balance forward: £ 268.87
    • Balance due: £ 337.34


    The next months invoice (18/11/2019 - 17/12/2019) shows the following

    • Subtotal: £56.75
    • VAT: £1.81
    • Invoice total: £58.26
    • Balance forward: £337.34
    • Balance due: £395.90


    The next months invoice (18/12/2019 - 17/01/2020) shows the following

    • Subtotal: £54.56
    • VAT: £1.85
    • Invoice total: £56.41
    • Balance forward: £395.90
    • Balance due: £452.31


    the next month invoice is missing - landlord has not sent/given me the 18/01/2020 - 17/02/2020


    The next months invoice (18/02/2020- 16/03/2020) shows the following

    • Subtotal: £51.54
    • VAT: £1.74
    • Invoice total: £53.28
    • Balance forward: £0.00
    • Balance due: £53.28


    My landlord has sent me all the photocopied invoices for the months NOT stated here. And in all those invoices there was £0.00 for the “balance brought forward”. When i asked him to send me these, he was a bit reluctant (not answering my messages) but sent me them a few days ago (not sure what made him change his mind), and lo and behold all the ones i asked for had a high sum for balance brought forward”. What really stands out to me is this “balance brought forward” what is this? Why did is suddenly appear in the invoice of 18/08/2019 - 17/09/2019 and then disappear in 18/02/2020- 16/03/2020. And why is it so much? From what i understand my water bill is based on my actual consumption as i have a meter. Also why in the last invoice bill above (the period 18/02/2020- 16/03/2020) is the balance brought forward suddenly £0.00. Forgive my lack of knowledge (and suspicious mind) but is my landlord telling me something i should know? Like was their a debt on the water bill for which he was meant to be paying and now he's transferring that onto me? If not what is going on here? Could anyone please advise?

    Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

    When did you move in to this property ? Looks like you are paying arrears or interest because they are paying late to the supplier. The balances doesn't match with the real monthly bill.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/water/water-supply/problems-with-paying-your-water-bill/paying-your-water-bills-if-you-re-a-tenant/
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