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eBay seller claims order delivered, refused refund, eBay and PayPal decide against buyer. Now what!?

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eBay seller claims order delivered, refused refund, eBay and PayPal decide against buyer. Now what!?

21 replies 1.2K views
OnlyOne2020OnlyOne2020 Forumite
8 posts
First Post
Good day to you all,
I'm turning to this forum for advice on below case.

Bought computer on eBay, worth £290, over a month ago, which was shipped via Hermes.
Hermes claims package was delivered on 1st May 2020 at 11:03 am BST. Hermes tracking website confirm the same.
I was home at that time and Hermes delivery man did not contact me, and I did not receive the package or sign for it.
I gave Hermes no instructions to leave the package anywhere or hand it to anyone else.
I live at block of flats, and went down to reception around 11:30 am BST and could not locate the package.
I checked with my neighbours, and no one seems to have collected the package.
Hermes did not collect signature due to applied policies for COVID-19.

I escalated the case to eBay, whom refused to refund; as Hermes tracking details showed item as delivered and closed the case in seller’s favour.
eBay advised me to contact Hermes and tell them that I am "disputing" the delivery and would like an investigation to be done. eBay also advised the I need to acquire formal headed-letter from Hermes stating where the item was delivered and to whom. I did so.
Hermes replied package was delivered to Asian gentleman in 30's, and refused to provide me any formal report, asking me to make seller contact them; as their contract is with the seller. 
Initially, seller did not contact Hermes, claiming she had technical difficulties in using Hermes chatbot.
After several weeks, seller shared a newly created email address, and I submitted a complaint to Hermes on her behalf.
Hermes replied to seller saying there will be no compensation as the package contained computer equipment (laptop).
Upon reviewing Hermes list of prohibited items, computer, laptop or tablet are not listed as prohibited items.
Until today, no update on what Hermes replied to seller.

Meanwhile, I escalated the case to PayPal, whom also closed the case in seller’s favour for same reason as eBay.
In parallel, I escalated the case to Hermes CEO, and received same reply that seller need to contact them to claim refund for lost package.
Seller advised that if she received refund from Hermes she will refund me.
I'm unsure whether seller will further cooperate after PayPal's decision.

I appreciate that under Consumer Rights Act and Consumer Contracts Regulations, seller is in breach of contract as the goods remain seller's responsibility until they are received by me, which has not happened until today.
I used debit card for payment, so chargeback is not an option.

I understand that last resort is small claims court, which require postal address of seller, which I do not have.
Any advice you may share to reclaim my hard-earned money would be much appreciated.

Thank you
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Replies

  • theonlywayisuptheonlywayisup Forumite
    14.6K posts
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    You will always lose a case with Ebay or Paypal when the seller has tracking showing delivery.  Have you appealed the case?

    You say you used a debit card for payment  'so chargeback is not an option'.  Actually a chargeback is an option with a debit card.  
    However, you also say you escalated to Paypal.  You either paid by debit card or Paypal, which is it?  If you paid by Paypal funded from your debit card then there is a third party involvement and your card provider may not be willing to help.  

  • edited 7 June at 4:17PM
    OnlyOne2020OnlyOne2020 Forumite
    8 posts
    First Post
    edited 7 June at 4:17PM
    You will always lose a case with Ebay or Paypal when the seller has tracking showing delivery.  Have you appealed the case?

    You say you used a debit card for payment  'so chargeback is not an option'.  Actually a chargeback is an option with a debit card.  
    However, you also say you escalated to Paypal.  You either paid by debit card or Paypal, which is it?  If you paid by Paypal funded from your debit card then there is a third party involvement and your card provider may not be willing to help.  

    Thank you for taking the time to reply.
    I did pay by Paypal funded from debit card.
    I appealed eBay case, which was closed in seller's favor.
    PayPal has no appeal procedure.

    I find the delivery company, Hermes, has been extremely negligent by leaving the package somewhere in (or event outside!) the building, which seems to have been gone missing (or stolen) and did not try to contact me to collect the package in person or instruct otherwise.
    However I understand I have no ground to take any action directly against Hermes, as Hermes' contract is with seller, and find myself forced to keep pushing against seller herself, whom has not been cooperative enough in chasing Hermes.

    Does anyone have previous experience of winning compensation against courier company, as the buyer or receipent, for lost package?
  • dj1471dj1471 Forumite
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    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Home Insurance Hacker!
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    You need to take the seller to small claims court. Whether the package is covered for loss or not is their problem rather than yours.

    There’s no guarantee that you’ll win in court, but it sounds like you have evidence from Hermes that confirms the item was mid-delivered so you have a decent chance of success.
  • theonlywayisuptheonlywayisup Forumite
    14.6K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
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    You will always lose a case with Ebay or Paypal when the seller has tracking showing delivery.  Have you appealed the case?

    You say you used a debit card for payment  'so chargeback is not an option'.  Actually a chargeback is an option with a debit card.  
    However, you also say you escalated to Paypal.  You either paid by debit card or Paypal, which is it?  If you paid by Paypal funded from your debit card then there is a third party involvement and your card provider may not be willing to help.  

    Thank you for taking the time to reply.
    I did pay by Paypal funded from debit card.
    I appealed eBay case, which was closed in seller's favor.
    PayPal has no appeal procedure.

    I find the delivery company, Hermes, has been extremely negligent by leaving the package somewhere in (or event outside!) the building, which seems to have been gone missing (or stolen) and did not try to contact me to collect the package in person or instruct otherwise.
    However I understand I have no ground to take any action directly against Hermes, as Hermes' contract is with seller, and find myself forced to keep pushing against seller herself, whom has not been cooperative enough in chasing Hermes.

    Does anyone have previous experience of winning compensation against courier company, as the buyer or receipent, for lost package?
    Paypal does have an appeals procedure but only if you had a case open with them.  If you are confusing ebay and PayPal then maybe you need to check which you had open.  

    As the addressee, you will have no hope or chance of any claim or compensation with Hermes. 

    You may want to try the funding option  (your debit card)  albeit most refuse due to a break in the chain - third party payment providers.  Perhaps they will hope and until you ask you won't know for sure. 
  • November2November2 Forumite
    937 posts
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Combo Breaker
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      The only problems I ever encounter with couriers is when someone lives in a flat, the opportunity for the parcel to be misdelivered rises dramatically, it sounds like your courier has handed the parcel to a person, probably in the reception area, which unfortunately wasn't you and they have stolen it.  Seller has evidence it has been 'delivered' so they are not going to refund you.  Unfortunately they are also not going to help you because Hermes will not compensate them for the parcel as laptops are not covered.     
    You need to get back to Ebay.  By asking you to contact Hermes and provide them with further details means they have not dismissed your claim but have started the process towards a goodwill refund.  You need to give them the details they asked you for, they cannot take sides so need the Hermes report before they can issue any refund, attach all the relevant emails from Hermes and seller - those stating who they handed the parcel to, regarding the formal report (explain why you have no formal report, that seller is being uncooperative).  Keep to the facts and give them as much information as you can regarding the delivery and tracking, but do not go into long tirades against the courier or the seller as this is just pointless. Ebay will review this evidence and your account and past behaviour as a buyer and will either ask for more details from Hermes or if everything is ok  you will most likely receive a refund.  Its not a guarantee but Ebay do give goodwill refunds, the fact they did not immediately close you down but asked you to gather evidence and a report from Hermes is a good sign.

  • pinkshoespinkshoes Forumite
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    You need to keep pestering eBay and the seller about this and do not let it drop.

    They USED to give out seller details. I'm assuming this is a private seller if no address is shown? You could get the address by opening a dispute for item not as described and ask to return it. Just return the 'nothing' that you have received, but this should get you the seller address so you can send a letter before action demanding a refund. 

    The alternative is pursuing your card provider for a refund. 
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
  • edited 19 June at 10:56PM
    OnlyOne2020OnlyOne2020 Forumite
    8 posts
    First Post
    edited 19 June at 10:56PM
    Thank you all for your replies and advice. It is much appreciated.
    I apologize for delay in updating this post, but there has recent developments in the case.
    I would like to ask a question first: Does courier acceptance of seller's claim constitute ground that courier accepted responsibility for lost or mis-delivered package?
    Just yesterday, Thu 18 June 2020, seller confirmed Hermes' acceptance to compensate her, the seller, for the package, capping the amount to maximum £20; as seller has not purchased insurance.
    Seller now refuse to refund my full paid price (£290.00), offering instead to pass-on Hermes' £20 compensation.
    Any thoughts?
    I will later share more details to the raised cases with eBay and PayPal and their responses for future-learning.
    I have also requested charge-back with my bank, Monzo, and pending their response, which could take up to 6 months, if I remember correctly.
  • Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
    1.3K posts
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    Thank you all for your replies and advice. It is much appreciated.
    I apologize for delay in updating this post, but there has recent developments in the case.
    I would like to ask a quick first, does courier acceptance of seller's claim constitute ground that courier accept responsibility for lost or mis-delivered pagckage?
    Just yesterday, Thu 18 June 2020, seller confirmed Hermes' acceptance to compensate her, the seller, for the package, capping the amount to maximum £20; as seller has not purchased insurance.
    Seller now refuse to refund my full paid price (£290.00), offering instead to pass-on Hermes' £20 compensation.
    Any thoughts?
    I will later share more details to the raised cases with eBay and PayPal and their responses for future-learning.
    I have also requested charge-back with my bank, Monzo, and pending their response, which is could take up to 6 months, if I remember correctly.
    Well that was their own stupid fault and that's an absolutely disgusting response.

    The seller decides what postage method (or gives a choice) and the buyer pays accordingly. For some lower value items but still over £20, some sellers see it as self-insuring - i.e. the extra cost for insurance generally isn't worth it for them (usually because they have such a high percentage of parcels delivered successfully) so they accept the risk that they'll have to pay out of pocket on the rare occasion a parcel does go missing or get damaged.

    I don't know what the legal standing is but it's utterly and completely absurd for the seller to think you accepted the risk of lack of compensation because they didn't offer a properly insured delivery.
  • edited 20 June at 12:47AM
    OnlyOne2020OnlyOne2020 Forumite
    8 posts
    First Post
    edited 20 June at 12:47AM
    Below is summary of PayPal case.
    Lesson learnt: Buy from eBay at your own risk!
    There is no gurantee to receive your purchased item or your money back, even if you paid via PayPal!


  • edited 20 June at 12:08AM
    OnlyOne2020OnlyOne2020 Forumite
    8 posts
    First Post
    edited 20 June at 12:08AM
    Communication with Hermes.
    Lesson learnt: Never ship or receive any package with Hermes!
    It is guranteed to be lost or damaged, with no compensation provided!

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