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Surprise CCJ - please help!

edited 27 April 2020 at 2:47PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
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123MrsT123MrsT Forumite
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Hello!

I received an email from the MSE credit club today to say my score has been updated, I logged in to find it has gone from 999 (Excellent) to 677 (Poor) due to a CCJ placed on my file. I am very worried, especially as I'd like to re-mortgage in around 6 months. 
A few google searches led me to this amazing forum and through reading previous threads I followed guidance to call up Northampton CC to get the details. I found out it was from a Parking Company. It says on my credit report that it was issued on the 02/01/2020 but this is the first time it has shown on my report. 

Details:
Northampton CC said the notes related to fines for failure to display a permit on 21/02/2018, 24/02/2018 and 27/02/2018 for my old car (which I've since sold) at my previous address (I've moved twice). At the time my car was parked in my designated bay in our secure residential car park - we lived in Zone 3 in London so didn't use the car very much at all, perhaps once or twice a month, hence the 3 tickets as we only noticed when we went to use the car that we'd been fined. Annoyingly the permit had been displayed but it had slipped down. You could clearly see the permit was there if you looked so we took a photo to show this. However, if you took a photo at the right angle from a distance it would have been concealed by the wipers and this is what the parking inspector did to issue a ticket. I think this is why I find it really unfair - I was in my allocated space, my permit was there and I wasn't blocking anyone etc. The inspector must have known this when they were sticking the fine on as did this over the permit and still issued consecutive tickets. 

Background:
I had a previous ticket dropped for similar instance a few years before (this time the permit had fallen off so was nowhere to be seen) which they company dropped just before the court date after I had submitted my evidence. From memory, part of this was that the sign said you could park if 'pre-authorised' and there were no details on how to do this, so I argued that surely an allocated space and resident's permit would mean it was pre-authorised. Whether valid or they didn't want to go to court I don't know. I had responded and appealed to the first letter in this instance but this was declined. In this case the company had sold off the debt to another who were chasing.

At the time of this new fine, my car was registered to my parent's address and my mum and dad rarely check / open mail - both their own and mine - not that it is their responsibility to open any mail for me! I usually go back home once or twice a year (we do see each other more just not usually at my parent's house!) where I usually check through the post and I did find some letters issued at the time but as they were old - over 6 months - and nothing else, I ignored them and asked my Dad to keep an eye out for anything else. 

Roll on to today, over 2 years later, and I have seen this on my credit file. I have since got married and changed my name, moved address (and changed this on the electoral role) and sold my car and bought a new one which is registered at my correct address! I've called my Dad and he's gone through the pile of mail and found a letter issued from the court late last year - had I known about this I would have 100% responded! I haven't been home to their address since April 2019. 

I want to apply for the CCJ to be put aside and to defend this but wanted to get advice. 

Questions:
How much detail should I add to get this put aside? The facts are I did not live at the address the court information was sent to (my parent's address is up north and I live and work in London and can prove this if necessary) and honestly did not receive it. However, is this complicated by the fact my parents live at the address?

Secondly, will I be penalised by not having responded to the other letters from the parking company?  

Finally, do you think my argument is reasonable to mean that the judge would think I would be successful in claiming to get the CCJ put aside? The photo was taken on an iphone and is dated but not sure how good evidence this would be or if I'd be better using a different argument.

Many thanks in advance for any help!! 
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Replies

  • D_P_DanceD_P_Dance Forumite
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    Others will advise you how to set aside a CCJ,  but please read this


    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.htmlantsot


    What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Ten Acts.


    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.


    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • nosferatu1001nosferatu1001 Forumite
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    When were the tickets from? When did you move, from the address? When did you update your V5? Were you "there to be found" at your new address? Did you make any contac twith the PPC at all? 

    Newbies thread has the info you need on set asides - have you read them?
  • 123MrsT123MrsT Forumite
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    What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Ten Acts.
    Thank you very much for replying - I really appreciate it. 

    I will have to have a look if I still have the lease agreement as it was from 2017-18 and I've moved twice since then as bought our home not long after (at a temporary address then our new home). The letting agents were terrible so I do hope I have it on email. 

    I will also definitely look into complaining to my MP! :)  
  • Le_KirkLe_Kirk Forumite
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    This link: -
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585#Comment_64350585
    will take you to the NEWBIE section second post and if you read it (it does take a bit of time to sink in, it is not a skim type read) you will find info on set-asides.  Also search for threads by User Henrik777, who posts frequently about set-asides.
  • edited 30 April 2020 at 9:48PM
    123MrsT123MrsT Forumite
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    edited 30 April 2020 at 9:48PM
    When were the tickets from? When did you move, from the address? When did you update your V5? Were you "there to be found" at your new address? Did you make any contac twith the PPC at all? 

    Newbies thread has the info you need on set asides - have you read them?
    Thank you very much for replying, your help is really appreciated! 

    The tickets were from 02/2018, 02/2018 and 02/2018. I moved from the address in April 2018 - at this time my details would have still been registered at my parent's address as was living at a short term / temporary addresses whilst the sale went through. I moved into our current home in November 2018 at which point everything was updated regarding my banking / electoral roll. I know I definitely called and updated my car insurance with the correct address but not sure on if I did anything else and I sold the car in March 2019. My new car is registered at my current address. The car was on a finance agreement and I just got a new car through the same umbrella brand so that address was all correct at my new address when settled / ownership transferred to the dealership. I should therefore have been 'there to be found' as my current vehicle, electoral roll etc. is all at this current address. 

    I didn't make any contact with the company or the PPC. 

    I have been reading through some of the examples and they've been really helpful! I think I'm just a little worried I might miss something when I submit meaning that will mean this isn't overturned. I am actually really upset about it all as worse case scenario this could have so many terrible repercussions.
  • nosferatu1001nosferatu1001 Forumite
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    Please, try to be concise. 
    We're trying to tease facts out from yoru posts, and its trickier when its buried :)
    So
    - tickets from 02/2018
    - judgement obtained 01/20, so claim likely raised 12/2019, or 20 months after the tickets issued 
    - you didnt contact them, meaning in the 20 months they MUST HAVE traced you to confirm address, but they didnt. 
    Did you update your V5? Yes or No. No other answer. Yes or no. 

    So you know youre going for a set aside either WITH or WITHOUT consent
    You should contact the PPC and *tell them* that you will be going for a set aside without consernt UNLESS they agree to a set aside with consent. It is in their interests to do so as they knowingly issued a claimfrom to an address where they had had no contact for 20 months. they failed to confirm the address was good, meanig the claim form was never served, and they were never entitled to a default judgement. You are proposing this as a set aside WITH consent only costs £100 and not £255, and means their burden of costs will be lower. 
  • 123MrsT123MrsT Forumite
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    Thank you very much nosferatu1001!

    Apologies - I was just trying to give a bit of context but can see it's confusing!

    To confirm:
    - Tickets on 3 dates from 02/2018
    - The letter was raised in December 19 
    - I didn't contact them at all 
    - The V5 wouldn't have been updated until I got my new car in March 2019

    Really do appreciate all of your help - is there a template letter to ask for this? I haven't seen one from the reading so far! Do I need to wait to then do the N244 form? Apologies if this is elsewhere, I have been reading through the suggested threads but haven't seen so far. 
  • nosferatu1001nosferatu1001 Forumite
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    Claim was raised. Not a letter!

    The newbies thread is your first port of call. have you read up on there about set asides? 
    You need MORE THAN the form. A lot more. 
  • 123MrsT123MrsT Forumite
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    Apologies for using the wrong terminology and if I'm seeming like I haven't read the newbies thread - I have been reading up all day whilst also trying to work (which is difficult when I am so worried about this!) but understand it must be frustrating. 

    As well as the obvious implications on my credit score, I'm a chartered accountant working in financial services so I can't have a CCJ on my record. I really want to make sure I get this set aside appeal right as I don't want something like this to impact a career which I've worked so hard for. 

    I've added the criteria for my case to be set aside below and why I think I meet this plus any complications. 

    1. Valid reason for not responding
    1. I did not receive the clam form
    2. I can evidence that I live at another address to where the claim form was sent
    3. They had no correspondence from me at all from the address they sent communications 
    Potential issues:
    1. In some responses I've seen that the judge has been critical of people not updating details timely. I had not updated V5 details until the car was sold in March 2019 (9 months before the claim was raised) BUT there are plenty of other ways that I could be located at my current address through credit records and electoral roll. 
    2. The previous address is my parent's address. I obviously wasn't expecting any mail and as noted they don't open my mail / tell me something has been received. 
    3. I did get a ticket on the car (which i've a photo of showing the permit by it) and letters from the parking company (albeit I found them late at my parent's house) when the car was registered to my parents address but did not respond to these.

    2. Realistic Prospect of Defence 
    I have been researching on this forum and I am not sure which argument to use here - I don't want to contradict anything. The facts and possible arguments based on what I have seen are: 
    1. I was parked in my allocated space - I managed to get my tenancy agreement from my old landlord (wording below) 
    2. The car was in a fob-only access residential car park (linked to the above to strengthen the argument)
    3. I was displaying a permit which had slipped down slightly but was still visible (photo evidence - but query on this)
    4. I am the registered keeper but it was actually my husband who had parked and was the driver 
    5. Verbiage on sign is unclear and states the contract is between the driver (see above) and that 'pre-authorised vehicles may park in allocated bays' - getting a photo from my friend who still lives there as this has changed since the one I have from my earlier charge as a different company. 

    a. Wording of tenancy agreement 
    Now I lived in 3 apartments in the complex and on 2/3 contracts it lists the allocated car space below the flat address in the details of property - but not on the relevant one :( I can get the agent to confirm the flat has an allocated space and the fob and permit are shown in the inventory report I have. 
    The wording in reference to parking is - 
    Obligations of the tenant:
    1. To park a private vehicle only at the property 
    2. To park in the car parking space, garage or driveway as allocated to the premises, if applicable 
    3. To keep any car parking space, garage or driveway free from [then a list]
    4. To remove all vehicles belonging to the tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the tenancy
    5. Not to park any vehicle at the premises that is not roadworthy or fully taxed 
    There is no reference to displaying a permit or liability for charges. Under obligations of the landlord it lists in detail clauses around quiet enjoyment, consent to be able to enter into the agreement and providing any relevant parts of contracts if landlord is under a superior lease (not sure the last is applicable). 

    b. Displaying a permit 
    If I use this defence my photo has the charge notice in it showing how visible the permit is and the photo is date stamped from when my husband sent it to me. This will show that they took dodgy angles on the photos to disguise the permit. 
    However, this then acknowledges I received the charge on the car. Does this matter or is it only the court claim (that I definitely did not receive)?

    3. Set aside application was made promptly 
    I only found out about the CCJ today when it showed on my credit file and I got an alert to say my score has changed. It was issued on 02/01/20.

    Asking for Consent
    Finally - if it is agreed to do this WITH their consent am I correct that I would have to pay £699 (charge) once they've agreed in writing + £100. I would be willing to do this (not ideal) but I do think that it would be then letting them get away with their big scam - it seems unjust as I was not parked against the terms and I genuinely didn't receive the claim. I obviously run the risk of it not being set aside by the judge if I go WITHOUT consent plus the extra £155 if it is set aside and then I lose. Have I understood this correctly? 

    If anyone could help and let me know if they think that there will be any problems with my reasons for not responding and the strongest defence option I would be very grateful! :) 
  • henrik777henrik777 Forumite
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    Asking for Consent
    Finally - if it is agreed to do this WITH their consent am I correct that I would have to pay £699 (charge) once they've agreed in writing + £100. I would be willing to do this (not ideal) but I do think that it would be then letting them get away with their big scam - it seems unjust as I was not parked against the terms and I genuinely didn't receive the claim. I obviously run the risk of it not being set aside by the judge if I go WITHOUT consent plus the extra £155 if it is set aside and then I lose. Have I understood this correct?



    Absolutely not correct.


    1 reason people consent to a set aside of this sort is because it's the least hassle and easiest way to get a set aside. Most PPcs are happy to get paid. Thus it generally works.



    It is not the only reason to consent to a set aside. If the claimant has a hopeless case against set aside then it may be prudent to accept a consented application as it costs less than losing a contested application.




    It's a little unclear as to whether your address was correct at DVLA when the tickets were issued. The address many months later has no relevance because they couldn't check it at DVLA. I think the fact that it was your parents address may hinder a defective service argument, certainly in some judges eyes, because you say the court papers were delivered there just that nobody paid any attention. I guess all notices were the same ?  (i would argue the previous address being parents should make no difference but the human mind will probably play a part).


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