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SIPP without SIPP provider?

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  • edited 6 January at 8:24PM
    Cash-Strapped.T32Cash-Strapped.T32
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    edited 6 January at 8:24PM
    I appreciate that all the points made by the posters above are likely to be factually correct, but everyone seems to have elegantly missed the op's (rather belligerently made) point;

    In theory, if a fund house is willing to sell directly to the individual, then could that individual not himself carry out the admin & legal work that's usually done by the pension provider, and thus cut out the pension provider entirely?

    It doesn't sound like an entirely stupid question..?
    Personally, I doubt very much that an average person would be equipped to literally administer every aspect of their own pension, but imo even just understanding the reasons why he couldn't do it is probably education enough to warrant asking the question :p

    *edit* that said it probably is something of a plonker-pull on the part of the OP, but interesting all the same (and now that comment seems a bit weird).
  • ApodemusApodemus
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    It used to be the case that you could structure a SIPP around other productive investments such as private businesses, or business assets including land and farms. Presumably these needed to be drawn up and managed under some form of arms-length agreement (using an accountant?). So are we absolutely sure that what the OP is suggesting is not possible - albeit probably at a higher cost than the usual SIPP providers?
  • LintonLinton
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    I appreciate that all the points made by the posters above are likely to be factually correct, but everyone seems to have elegantly missed the op's (rather belligerently made) point;

    In theory, if a fund house is willing to sell directly to the individual, then could that individual not himself carry out the admin & legal work that's usually done by the pension provider, and thus cut out the pension provider entirely?



    Fund managers did sell direct in the past before online access was available but much less so now, if at all. I would guess the fees were much larger then, however they werent made explicit.
  • AnotherJoeAnotherJoe
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    Barney683 wrote: »
    Hi.

    I want to consolidate all previous employer pensions into a SIPP. I thought that meant I could truly manage my own pension - but it seems not. It seems I have to go through a "SIPP provider" who will skim hundreds of pounds a year off the top for doing exactly nothing.

    I already know which funds/OEICs I wish to invest in. I don't want to be restricted to a list of funds available through a certain SIPP provider, I don't need any advice, and I don't wish to chop and change at all going forward (and if I did, I'm quite capable of buying and selling the funds without any help).

    Is it at all possible to truly manage ones own pension fund? If not, does anything come close to this?

    Thanks
    Barney


    Well, that is simply 100% factually incorrect, even the most bare bones SIPP will have to follow a lot of rules and regulations regarding HMRC that only a company not an individual would be able to do. You'd also need to hold seperate bank accounts, report to HMRC, provide reports to yourself in the prescribed format, communicate with HMRC in order to claim tax and received tax into an account.

    You'd also need to have dealing arrangements so you coudl buy and sell investments and hold them at arms length from you, the individual. How would you, for example, buy a share in say Apple , register it to as your company as a nominee and prove that you as an individual owned it? How would you manage HMRC audits , and so on. And on and on and on.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
  • LHW99LHW99
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    You can invest directly in whatever funds you want, and not use a SIPP structure at all - but you give up the tax relief, and if you are employed you give up any possible contributions from your employer, both of which would massively outweigh any platform charges
  • edited 6 January at 11:22PM
    Barney683Barney683
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    edited 6 January at 11:22PM
    Linton: I thought that was clear from the question! Not pay hundreds of pounds a year to a SIPP provider for doing nothing at all (the fund manager's take is quite enough already for my liking), and have access to funds listed on any exchange in the world (I've not found a SIPP provider who can do that - some won't even offer EUR denominated German funds, for goodness sake!).
  • Thank you for the responses. I'm not "pulling anyone's plonker" and if I seem belligerent it's because I'm genuinely upset that a SIPP isn't what I has imagined it to be - a way for me to mark a holding in any fund I wish to invest in, listed on any exchange and denominated in any currency, as part of my pension, without absurd charges.


    To the poster who (very belligerently!) insisted I should do some research as to what SIPPs actually are, what am I doing posting here if not research? And as to your suggestion that paying at least £500 pounds is warranted for the legal duties performed by the SIPP provider - I don't believe you. I'm quite sure this is all done electronically, without being seen by human eyes, with negligible cost.
  • frontyfronty
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    The SIPP providers do have other costs, employees need paying, buildings needs to be rented and heated, electrickery and interweb all needs to be paid for. Then there's business rates and corporation tax. It all has to be paid for somehow.
  • SonOfSonOf
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    I thought that was clear from the question! Not pay hundreds of pounds a year to a SIPP provider for doing nothing at all

    I think it has been made quite clear that you are incorrect.
    To the poster who (very belligerently!) insisted I should do some research as to what SIPPs actually are, what am I doing posting here if not research?

    Sounds more like venting than research.
    And as to your suggestion that paying at least £500 pounds is warranted for the legal duties performed by the SIPP provider - I don't believe you. I'm quite sure this is all done electronically, without being seen by human eyes, with negligible cost.

    And the knowledge just magics itself into existence along with the systems etc.
  • What are you in about, SonOf? What knowledge?


    It is abundantly clear that asking a question about how SIPPs work on a pensions forum is research.
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