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Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Disability Money Matters
40 replies 5.4K views
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  • edited 4 November 2019 at 5:39PM
    Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    edited 4 November 2019 at 5:39PM
    50Twuncle wrote: »

    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !

    It's not a case of 'can you?'
    It's a case of 'can you do this reliably, repeatedly (within a reasonable timescale and as often as you need to), safely, to an acceptable standard, and within a reasonable time (i.e. less than twice the time it would take a non-disabled person to do it)?' I think one of your previous threads already discussed this but I can't remember which one exactly.

    Btw, crawling does not count.
    This includes the ability to stand and then move ...
    ‘Standing’ means to stand upright with at least one biological foot on the ground with or without suitable aids and appliances ...

    ‘Stand and then move’ requires an individual to stand and then move independently while remaining standing. ...

    ... The reliability criteria should be applied when assessing what distances the claimant can achieve.

    Aids or appliances that a person uses to support their physical mobility may include walking sticks, crutches and prostheses.

    When assessing whether the activity can be carried out reliably, consideration should be given to the manner in which the activity is completed. This includes, but is not limited to, the claimant’s gait, their speed, the risk of falls and symptoms or side effects that could affect their ability to complete the activity, such as pain, breathlessness and fatigue.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

    Planning and following journeys is a vital, separate part of mobility. If you have zero physical problems walking but don't know how to get yourself anywhere, you'd need someone always with you to make sure you get to wherever you need, and to keep you safe (a lost person is more vulnerable than someone who knows where they are; add in the condition/s causing them to not know where you are and that person cannot be said to be safe). It's about cognitive ability, which is why it's separate from the physical part of the mobility section.

    EDIT to add:
    50Twuncle wrote: »
    I have found a "specimen PIP1 form" at :


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/713113/pip1-claim-form.pdf

    This appears to be lacking any questions on ability to do "ANYTHING" - What is a PIP 1 form supposed to be for ?

    (The link didn't work for me, just FYI - could just be my tablet, or it may not work for others either.)
    The PIP1 form is the initial claim form, which you only fill out if you can't start the claim over the phone.
    The one they send out afterwards is the PIP2, which is about how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities.
  • Alice_HoltAlice_Holt Forumite
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    I haven't got a rail but the toilet is right next to the bath and I use the handle on there to get up.

    That to me could demonstrate the need for a rail.
    I would include that in the submission and see what the tribunal decide on that activity.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
  • venisonvenison Forumite
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    50Twuncle wrote: »
    I think that I can answer that myself :

    Currently, the Motability scheme has more than 650,000 customers - and assuming that half of those entitled to max mobility - use it for a car - that means that roughly 1 million PIP claimants receive 12 points on mobility
    THAT IS ASTONISHING !

    as of april 2018 1.7 million people were receiving PIP at some level and there were still a lot of people to be transferred over from DLA at that point.
    MSE bring back discussion Time, its removal is an outrage at best and an attempt at censoring at worst !
  • Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    Alice_Holt wrote: »
    That to me could demonstrate the need for a rail.
    I would include that in the submission and see what the tribunal decide on that activity.

    It counts as an aid if it's an ordinary item but used in a different way from its intended purpose, a way in which someone without a condition/disability wouldn't need to use it. It's somewhere in the guidance or definitions; I'll come back if I can find it.

    Minimad1970 You would need to explain that you use it out of need, not out of preference though. If you could get off the toilet okay without it, just maybe taking slightly longer, they probably won't count it. But if you can't safely/reliably get up without some kind of rail (in this case, the handle on the bath) then it does count. They should decide accordingly.
  • edited 4 November 2019 at 11:32PM
    poppy12345poppy12345 Forumite
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    edited 4 November 2019 at 11:32PM
    50Twuncle wrote: »
    Has anyone got the latest stats of the number of PIP claimants found to be entitled to 12 points mobility
    because, from what I can make of the rules - it is virtually impossible

    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !
    It's not virtually impossible to be awarded Enhanced mobility. I claim it for moving around and my daughter claims it for following and planning a journey. I also know of quite a lot of others that claim it too.



    Did you actually read the link i posted above? It will benefit you if you did read it because based on some of what you've said you could use a better understanding of what the descriptors mean. This will certainly help when the time eventually comes for you to have to apply.
  • 50Twuncle50Twuncle Forumite
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    venison wrote: »
    as of april 2018 1.7 million people were receiving PIP at some level and there were still a lot of people to be transferred over from DLA at that point.


    Have you any idea how many have been "done" and how many still to "do" ?
    Things may (or may not) get better
  • p00hsticksp00hsticks Forumite
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    50Twuncle wrote: »
    Have you any idea how many have been "done" and how many still to "do" ?


    according to

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2019/dwp-benefits-statistical-summary-august-2019
    'There were 2.1 million people claiming PIP at February 2019, and 1.7 million people claiming DLA. The number of people claiming PIP rose by 350,000 during the past year, and over the same period, DLA claims fell by 290,000. There were 3.8 million combined claimants at February 2019, an increase of 65,000.
  • kingfisherbluekingfisherblue Forumite
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    50Twuncle wrote: »
    Has anyone got the latest stats of the number of PIP claimants found to be entitled to 12 points mobility
    because, from what I can make of the rules - it is virtually impossible


    I, for example - cannot truthfully say that I cannot walk/crawl 20metres, 20 metres is pointless - who set this distance ?
    It should be 100 metres !
    The "Planning and following journeys" bit is even worse - it asks whether a claimant is able to follow instructions - rather than mobilise themselves !


    It's not virtually impossible at all. My son scored 22 points for this component. He scored 12 points for being unable to plan or follow a journey, or go out alone (I can't remember the exact wording of the descriptor), and ten points for mobilising - although I think that he should have been awarded twelve points for this part, as he cannot walk without pain, cannot walk repeatedly, cannot walk safely (his breathing becomes compromised very quickly, and he has constant pain in his legs due to hypermobility), and cannot walk in a timely manner. However, with enhanced on both components for ten years, I wasn't going to argue!


    The planning and following a journey part was, I believe, introduced to include people with learning disabilities, dementia, and similar conditions. For someone like my son, it is impossible to go out alone. Leaving aside the fact that he is a wheelchair user, he cannot find his way to my mum's house in the next street, even though he has lived in the same house all his life (he's 21), and my mum still lives in my childhood home. He only has to turn right, follow the road to the end, and turn left, but it is beyond his capabilities.


    I know of several other people who have been awarded 12+ points for the mobility component, so it definitely isn't impossible. I think that the amount of people with Motability cars shows that a largge number of people are awarded.
  • poppy12345poppy12345 Forumite
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    I think the OP only reads what he wants to read.... has most likely not read the link i posted in a previous comment.
  • minimad1970minimad1970 Forumite
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    Alice_Holt wrote: »
    Then put that on your submission to the tribunal.

    The tablet dispenser (as an aid) is 1 point.

    Needing help to get in / out of the bath is potentially 3 points.

    If you scored 0 points and all the above points are awarded at tribunal, where are the additional 2 points to get you up to 8 points and a standard DL award?

    Dressing and undressing?
    Needing a rail to get on / off the toilet safely?

    Thanks for your help. I had my tribunal yesterday and have been awarded the standard rate for daily living, I got 8 points. No mobility award and I'm fine with that, they did award me 4 points and said I could ask for it to be looked at again but I don't want to risk it. The award is backdated to 13/12/2018 to run until 12/12/2021, although I'm aware I can be reassessed at any time.
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