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Suppliers installing smart meters for new customers

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Energy
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  • edited 18 May 2019 at 11:23AM
    TalldaveTalldave Forumite
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    edited 18 May 2019 at 11:23AM
    DawnCrush wrote: »
    I trust my previosu post answers all the questions you have posed :)

    You may have 13 years of reading this site, but from your posting record, you appear to have had an almost 7 year break (save for 2 posts) in contributing (posting) from the period Dec 2012 and April 2019 using this particular user account. :cool:
    And the user account you are currently using indicates it was only created in September 2009, less than 10 years ago.

    Zog energy has never even supplied electricity ;)

    I asked two questions, which you didn't answer. So no.

    It's also impressive that after just a handful of hours' membership you've found your way around the site's membership information pages. Not sure why you bothered. What's the relevance of when I created my account?

    It's funny though, that after a decade of membership when nobody made any reference to my membership stats, twice within a period of a few weeks two different users start quoting my stats at me in some kind or trivial, supercilious, childish and remarkably similar points scoring way.

    Which is a shame because the vast majority of MSE members are polite, courteous and share their experiences in a positive way, which means we all learn and better ourselves.
  • PagettPagett Forumite
    87 posts
    Talldave wrote: »
    Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us with the facts that back up your potentially sweeping statement (or is it a misrepresentation?).

    To reiterate, I've been buying energy for over 30 years, have never used an E7 tariff and every property I've lived in has had an E7 meter. I've never encountered a supplier who was unable to handle the non-E7 use of an E7 meter. I've used big suppliers (npower, Eon,EDF, British Gas) and not so big (Ovo, Zog, So, Affect, Pure Planet that I can remember).

    I'm keen learn how come my very limited experience has left me with such an erroneous view of the market. It's a shame you've only joined MSE in the last few hours because you've obviously got so much more knowledge than I've managed to acquire from almost 13 years reading & contributing.

    So for the benefit of everyone, perhaps you could quantify your figures?

    What is "a handful"?

    What is "the vast majority"?

    I'm sure with that information myself and others will be able to see where our years of misunderstanding and misrepresentation have come from.

    You appear to have been totally pwnd, mate ;)

    Here are just o couple of past examples of EDF customers stating that EDF will not provide a single rate tariff when on an E7 meter (but EDF do not charge to change the meter to a single rate one)
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3168950
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3990393

    This is what uSwitch say in general (for all suppliers):
    Switching from Economy 7

    If you want to switch from Economy 7 to a standard electricity tariff, you will need to contact your electricity supplier to find out more about the process. This is because you will probably need to fulfil some acceptance criteria to make the switch.


    You may also have to have a new meter installed, which your energy supplier will often charge you for. In some circumstances you may be able to arrange to carry on using your Economy 7 meter; again, your current supplier should be able to tell you if this is the case.


    When you do your comparison with uSwitch, we ask if you have Economy 7 - if you say that you do, we'll tailor your results so you only see relevant tariffs....
    https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/economy-7/

    Even more surprising is what Ovo say, based on your claims about their ability to supply a single rate tariff when you have an E7 meter
    I’ve already got Economy 7 but I’d like to switch back to a normal rate – what should I do?

    Once again, get in touch with your energy supplier. You’ll probably need to have a new meter installed, and there may be a charge for this....
    https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/economy-7.html

    But nothing can beat this claim you made about Zog Energy being able to handle the non-E7 use of an E7 meter
    DawnCrush wrote: »
    ...

    Zog energy has never even supplied electricity ;)

    :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


    Talldave wrote: »
    I asked two questions, which you didn't answer. So no.

    It's also impressive that after just a handful of hours' membership you've found your way around the site's membership information pages. Not sure why you bothered. What's the relevance of when I created my account?

    It's funny though, that after a decade of membership when nobody made any reference to my membership stats, twice within a period of a few weeks two different users start quoting my stats at me in some kind or trivial, supercilious, childish and remarkably similar points scoring way.

    Which is a shame because the vast majority of MSE members are polite, courteous and share their experiences in a positive way, which means we all learn and better ourselves.

    You seem to have asked at least 4 questions, unless I can't count.
    (and for the record, I do consider the reply does address, directly or indirectly, all those 4 questions you posed)

    It seems to me it was you that first brought up the subject in this thread of your alleged long time reading and contributing to this site, whilst at the same time posting disparaging comments regarding the Newbie :o

    Have you ever heard the saying that begins "People in glass houses ..."? :cool:
  • PagettPagett Forumite
    87 posts
    The only other person who I can find on this site who seems to agree that EDF will willingly provide one of their single single rate tariffs despite being on an E7 meter is user Bark01.

    I am sure it is a pure coincidence that this other user just so happened to join this site 2 days before you did, some 9+ years ago.

    Anyway, here is the thread where that claim is made
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4483253

    ... and as you can see, that claim was questioned in that thread too by a couple of MSEers (thread from 2013)


  • CardewCardew Forumite
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    Pagett wrote: »
    Y

    Even more surprising is what Ovo say, based on your claims about their ability to supply a single rate tariff when you have an E7 meter

    https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/economy-7.html

    I’ve already got Economy 7 but I’d like to switch back to a normal rate – what should I do?

    Once again, get in touch with your energy supplier. You’ll probably need to have a new meter installed, and there may be a charge for this....






    As stated in my earlier post I am with OVO with an Economy 7 meter and have a non Economy 7 tariff. I switched from E-on



    On my last bill in April I had used 310kWh on Day meter and 75kWh on Night meter, I was charged for 385kWh @ 11.39p/kWh.









  • TalldaveTalldave Forumite
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    I fail to understand why reference is being made to switching from E7 to non-E7. That's not what I was talking about. As I have said earlier, I have never been on an E7 tariff, so have only ever switched from non-E7 to non-E7. All along, I have had an E7 meter and supply day and night readings. I can't explain that any clearer.


    I'm sorry that in thinking back to some of the energy suppliers I've used I mentioned Zog as they are, as has been pointed out, gas only. But I've used single fuel and duel fuel tariffs interchangeably and am unable to remember the exact deals I had with every supplier. However, it's easy to remember that I've never used an E7 tariff because for many years I used Excel spreadsheets to see if I ever got to the break even point.

    I'm sorry that I don't keep bills going back years, but here's a recent Ovo bill which apparently shows the impossible:

    https://ibb.co/nQrMhzy

    I really don't care who created accounts and when - I have just one and am quite happy with it thanks.
  • CardewCardew Forumite
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    Pagett wrote: »
    Y

    It seems to me it was you that first brought up the subject in this thread of your alleged long time reading and contributing to this site, whilst at the same time posting disparaging comments regarding the Newbie :o


    I am sure I speak for a lot of posters on this forum who are full of admiration for your actions in defending a 'Newbie' so eloquently;)
  • PerhapsPerhaps Forumite
    28 posts
    A related query. The meter in question has 'rate 1', 'rate 2', and 'both together' readings. Spark have put us on a default E7 tariff, and some suppliers' websites detect there's an E7 meter when giving quotes. But is there a way to sign up with a new supplier on a single-rate tariff using the 'both together' reading, and finishing up with the old supplier using the rate 1/2 readings? Obviously they won't match, which might cause troubles?

    Usually when I ask for a quote, the first thing a website asks is if I have an E7 meter (if they haven't already detected that) and then offers me E7 tariffs.
  • edited 19 May 2019 at 10:55AM
    TalldaveTalldave Forumite
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    edited 19 May 2019 at 10:55AM
    Perhaps wrote: »
    A related query. The meter in question has 'rate 1', 'rate 2', and 'both together' readings. Spark have put us on a default E7 tariff, and some suppliers' websites detect there's an E7 meter when giving quotes. But is there a way to sign up with a new supplier on a single-rate tariff using the 'both together' reading, and finishing up with the old supplier using the rate 1/2 readings? Obviously they won't match, which might cause troubles?

    Usually when I ask for a quote, the first thing a website asks is if I have an E7 meter (if they haven't already detected that) and then offers me E7 tariffs.

    In my "very limited experience of a small, select number of suppliers" I have always had to use the rate1/2 readings and the supplier adds them. My guess is that the info in the meter database tells them it's a dual rate meter and they're therefore obliged to take two readings. This is a guess, so if I'm wrong I'm sure the trolls will be along shortly to criticise.

    When you switch suppliers your readings are dealt with by some industry quango, which is non consumer facing and apparently answerable to nobody. They reserve the right to modify your final readings before returning them to your new supplier. On my last switch this organisation inexplicably changed my readings thus I was charged for more electricity at my old supplier's higher rate than I had used with them. I assume, therefore, that their incompetence extends to being unable to add to numbers together and hence owners of E7 meters are locked into using r1/r2 figures regardless of tariff.

    As a further interesting aside, my partner is currently responsible for a property where the total figure on the meter is not equal to the sum of r1 & r2.

    As for switching, use the comparison websites in non-E7 mode and when it comes to switching readings the supplier will realise you need to give two figures. Or just call your chosen supplier and, provided they're one of the "handful of suppliers" who support non-E7 tariffs with E7 meters, they'll advise how to proceed.

    So that's my attempt to be helpful but I'll apologise in advance for anything I've misunderstood or misrepresented thus hopefully giving the trolls and well-informed newbies less ammunition to criticise me with.
  • Section106Section106 Forumite
    88 posts
    Perhaps wrote: »
    Moved into a new property which has a strange setup. Oil central heating, so only an electric meter, in a very awkward place. An economy 7 meter, coming on Spark Energy's default tariff of about 23p/kWh daytime rate. Given the oil heating, we use very minimal electricity during the night.
    Notwithstanding the risk involved, have you been taking readings of what you are actually using during the cheap hours? And have you found out when the cheap hours are for your meter - which might not be the same as the published hours for your supplier/region.

    This time of year the E7 time might not finish until 8:30am. Which means if you have a routine that involves getting up and out of the house for work/school then a big chunk of your consumption (coffee making, breakfast cooking, hair drying/straightening, TV watching, power/electric showering, washing machine? etc) might be taking place in E7 hours.

    And if your meter is wrong, your E7 hours could be in the early evening when dinner is being cooked, not "during the night".

    But more importantly, have you checked to see whether you have an immersion heater for the hot water? With oil it is almost certain you have a hot water cylinder. If you have an immersion heater and don't need the central heating running full pelt through the summer then you might find it more economic to have the immersion heater running overnight to heat the hot water and reprogramme the oil boiler so it only tops up the hot water in the evening.

    However, if you need to leave the boiler on for central heating in the morning then bear in mind all the pumps, fans and other electrical equipment an oil system uses will also be consuming electricity in the E7 hours.

    That's why it is important to get readings showing your actual use during E7 hours, rather than just assuming you don't use much at night.
  • PerhapsPerhaps Forumite
    28 posts
    Section106 wrote: »
    Notwithstanding the risk involved, have you been taking readings of what you are actually using during the cheap hours?

    That was kinda why I wanted a smart meter in the first place...

    There's solar hot water, so at present we're using no external water heating. I'd expect we'll use oil for that in the winter. The main loads on electric are for cooking in the evening, and regular low loads like fridge etc. The E7 period is 00.00 to 07.00 UTC (so 01.00 to 08.00 BST) and not much stirs during that time. It's possible with a tariff like the Symbio one (13.5p day/9.5p night) we could shift things like washing machine and dishwasher to the night period, but 23p/kWh day is just ridiculous, irrespective of how cheap the night rate is.
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