IMPORTANT REMINDER: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information. If you are uploading images, please take extra care that you have redacted all personal information.

Period of time elapsed before receiving Parking Charge notification?

edited 9 June 2018 at 8:13PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
26 replies 2.1K views
Batman3479Batman3479 Forumite
15 Posts
All,

First-time poster here, so please be kind: I've searched the forums, but not found anyone with precisely the same problem.

My car (I am the keeper) was parked several times late at night in a retail park. It was private parking, free for stays <2hours, customers only, with liability for a £100 fine (£60 for swift payment) if the terms are violated. There is no pay and display, or any other way that drivers 'validate' their presence. The 'perceived wisdom' of the nearby residents was that it was not enforced overnight, so lots of people seemed to park there - the retail park is closed overnight, so the car park sits empty.

I have received 3 Parking Charge Notices from Parking Eye regarding 3 of these visits (nothing from earlier ones!) - they look to be ANPR (assuming there isn't a warden going around photographing after midnight). I'm guessing they either installed ANPR or started applying it if it was there already.

There was never a ticket on the car windshield for any of these events - just a PCN letter through the post, with photos, dates, periods, et cetera).

The driver of the vehicle did park the car for longer than 2 hours once in late March and twice in April. I as the keeper of the vehicle received the Parking Charge Notifications for these respective events at least 5 weeks (each) after the initial events, and the PCNs own dates confirm this

I believe that if there is no physical ticket on the window, the company has to issue the PCN (which also serves as the notice to keeper) within 14 days of the incident. The Resolver Website says:

"Is there a time limit on when private parking firms can give me a ticket?
The short answer is yes! The Protection of Freedoms Act says that ..... If the parking firm wants to issue a ticket by post alone, they have to do it within 14 days of the incident.

Outside of the Protection of Freedoms Act, the parking firm should give you sufficient opportunity to appeal. If the parking firm sends you a ticket four months after the incident, for example, you!!!8217;d most likely be able to argue that this is patently unfair.

In cases such as these, you should use Resolver to contact the parking firm and appeal the ticket. If they reject the appeal, you should contact either POPLA or IPC (depending on which ATA the firm belongs to)."

All 3 of these PCNs clearly have 'date of event' and 'date of issue' on them, and on each one there is at least 5 full weeks between the two.

I've never received one of these before, so I paid the first one, but have since received the second two, prompting me to seek assistance, and am looking for advice:

Is it worth appealing on the grounds that they 'left it too long'?

(By appeal I mean go back to ParkingEye to say that their PCN does not comply and is therefore invalid).

The resolver advice seems sound - I think I'm just looking for some reassurance to find if anyone else has successfully done this....
«13

Replies

  • QuentinQuentin Forumite
    40.4K Posts
    Everyone is politely asked to read up on this in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread.

    Go there now to learn about the game you are now caught up in. You will see you don't worry about finding your exact circumstances!

    Follow the appeal advice in #1 and send separate appeals for each pcn

    Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

    You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving

    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you
  • edited 9 June 2018 at 5:02PM
    RedxRedx Forumite
    38.1K Posts
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 9 June 2018 at 5:02PM
    your first task is not to hold any hands up, plus never use the following words in your posts on here about parking


    " MY , ME , MYSELF & I"


    so edit the post above so it only talks about what happened on the days to the DRIVER and since the days in question to the KEEPER


    a NO COMMENT interview if you like , not a statement for the "prosecution"



    then we can get down to the nitty gritty , in answering the legal questions


    so also read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, 3 threads down from the top of this forum


    and PE rarely issue tickets on the day, they use ANPR cameras and so issue postal notices that should arrive with the KEEPER by day 15 following the incident, to comply with POFA2012


    their invoice is not "invalid" , its a common misconception , its perfectly valid in law but not the POFA2012 law as they mssied issuing it within the 14 days allowed under POFA2012. however, it is still a valid invoice against the driver


    it just means that if they failed POFA2012 then the keeper cannot be held liable and they should be chasing the driver on the day, who shall not be named


    you still go through the process though , appealing as keeper and not revealing who was driving
  • Batman3479Batman3479 Forumite
    15 Posts
    Thank you to Quentin and Redx for swift replies - I have amended my post to make sure it has the right helpful information in it.

    If I appeal that the keeper can't be held liable, how does POFA2012 protect the driver of a vehicle from PCNs that are 'old' - does the 'must be issued within 14 days' piece apply for the driver also? I'm a bit confused as to how it can be 'perfectly valid in law but not the POFA2012 Law'?
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
    36.7K Posts
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    Do a forum search on the term 'Golden Ticket' and you will quickly see how easily such tickets can be beaten at POPLA (as long as there's no identifying the driver).
    HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

    Use the Forum Jump button (one near the top and one near bottom of this page) to get back to the forum thread list. Just above the threads, on the right, is a heading along a line, next to forum tools, called 'Search this Forum'. Put your key word(s) in and change the default search from 'Show Threads' to 'Show Posts'.
    You must appeal each ticket separately using the initial appeal template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. Do not attempt to add or change anything - particularly critical where Golden Tickets are concerned.

    PE will reject each one and provide you with three separate POPLA codes - where you can then get these cancelled.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • edited 9 June 2018 at 6:41PM
    RedxRedx Forumite
    38.1K Posts
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 9 June 2018 at 6:41PM
    POFA2012 can only hold a KEEPER to being liable for a drivers actions, IF the PPC complies with it, but as a law it is not mandatory and many PPC,s dont even bother trying , even though they send out the pcn to the keeper (as they have no idea who was driving)

    so if a PPC fails POFA2012 , like timescales and wording etc, it protects that keeper from the actions of a driver

    POFA2012 does not protect a driver in any way , shape or form

    so if PE failed to adhere to POFA2012, a keeper can use that as a reason for getting it cancelled at POPLA or in court , as well as all the other usual arguments

    a driver can only use the other legal arguments , like no landowner contract , poor signage , CoP failures etc


    generally speaking , the driver is the person who is deemed liable in law, under contract law , unless they are trespassing
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    106.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    The driver of the vehicle did park the car for longer than 2 hours on March 31st, April 8th and April 18th. I as the keeper of the vehicle received the Parking Charge Notifications for these respective events in late May/early June, dated with a 'date of issue' of 22/5/18 (for the March 31st event), 31/5/18 (for the 8th April event) and 31/5/18 (for the April 18th event)
    VERY odd! THREE Golden Tickets from PE is like winning the lottery, all very easy to win.

    Great that they are all incapable of holding you liable (as long as you don't blow it an blab about the driver on appeal!). Have you only recently bought the car, or is it leased?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Guys_DadGuys_Dad Forumite
    11K Posts
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Umkomaas wrote: »

    PE will reject each one and provide you with three separate POPLA codes - where you can then get these cancelled.

    It is at POPLA that you use the proper Out of Time appeal point remembering you do a separate appeal for each event.

    My advice is to use the Out of Time appeal point on its own when you appeal to POPLA. Written correctly, it is a sure fire winner and best not to clutter your appeal with the 2nd division appeal points that others without your Golden Ticket need to fall back on
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    106.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    Yep, can just be a one point POPLA appeal. Just wondering though if this is a leased car?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Batman3479Batman3479 Forumite
    15 Posts
    Thanks all; no, not a leased car, and owned by me for the whole duration of the incidents described.
  • RedxRedx Forumite
    38.1K Posts
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Batman3479 wrote: »
    Thanks all; no, not a leased car, and owned by me for the whole duration of the incidents described.


    in which case, all you need to know as KEEPER of the vehicle is that POFA2012 protects you as KEEPER due to the fact that PE failed the timescales and probably missed off the POFA2012 wording too


    had they been inside the correct timescales , the POFA2012 would have been on there


    so you have what are known on here as "golden tickets", meaning a keeper can get it cancelled by popla on a technicality , namely , by using POFA2012 to protect you as keeper


    in which case, what the driver did on the days in questions is irrelevant as PE have no idea who the driver was
This discussion has been closed.
Latest News and Guides