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Resident Parking

edited 8 January 2018 at 10:50PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
302 replies 20K views
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  • As Pablo said, Silver or lead
    We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose.
    If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.
  • got a reply from TS

    Thank you for your email of 31st January.



    Parking Control Management (PCM) automated payment line is 0845 867 9445. This number is not a premium rate number regulated by the Phone-paid Services Authority. This is a non-geographic number charged at up to 10p per minute plus your phone company's access charge. Ofcom are responsible for the regulation of 084 numbers. You can contact them via:



    Ofcom

    Riverside House

    2a Southwark Bridge Road

    London

    SE1 9HA

    Tel: 0300 123 3333



    I am advised by Slough Trading Standards in whose area PCM are based that since 1st January 2018, the business no longer makes a charge for the use of credit and other card payments.



    From 13th January 2018 charging a fee in addition to the advertised cost on the basis of a consumer!!!8217;s choice of payment was banned. However traders can charge costs absorbed from the use of the payment method in question. For example the Merchant Service Charge, which traders pay to their payment service provider can be passed on to consumers. The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 (The Regulations) prohibit charges that are more than the cost of processing a payment method. PCM charge a total cost of £1 and consumers have the option to pay online or by post.



    PCM are in the process of amending their signage/boards to remove the banned credit card charge. This process will take some considerable time in light of nearly 1 million boards to work on. . All call costs are currently indicated on the signs including the £5 that is no longer being charged and banned.



    Clarion Housing confirm that they have an agreement with PCM to regulate parking at this location.



    PCM is an International Parking Community (IPC) approved contractor - https://theipc.info/aos-members/p. IPC operate an independent appeals process via The Independent Appeals Service.



    The Regulations give consumer enforcement authorities (including local authority trading standards and the Northern Ireland Department for Enterprise, Trade and Investment) the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations. The Regulations were amended by Paragraph 12 of Schedule 8 to The Payment Services Regulations 2017 with effect from 13th January 2018. This brought into force the ban of additional charges on the basis of a consumer!!!8217;s choice of payment instrument (for example, credit card, debit card or e-money).



    I would refer you to the wording in my original letter of 26th January 2018 that !!!8220;due to the large number of enquiries that we receive every year, we are unable to investigate each one. However, we do value the information given to us and use it as part of our intelligence. This enables us to build a profile on trading in the borough and the trading practices that are affecting our community. We then use this information to plan and target our work, thus using our limited resources more efficiently.!!!8221;



    Regulation 41 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 requires that where a trader operates a telephone line for the purpose of consumers contacting the trader by telephone in relation to contracts entered into with the trader, a consumer contacting the trader must not be bound to pay more than the basic rate. Slough Trading Standards clarified that the basic rate in this case is your phone company's access charge.



    I am sorry if we have been unable to meet your expectations of our service on this occasion. Should you wish to register a complaint, please find a link to the relevant council webpage - https://www.merton.gov.uk/council-and-local-democracy/complaints-compliments-and-comments
    We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose.
    If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.
  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
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    If they are a registered charity, consider making a complaint to The Charity Commissioners
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    Umkomaas wrote: »
    Credit card charges have only just been banned, it’s unrealistic that the millions of signs across the country are going to be updated/edited (usually with black tape!), the instant the law is changed!

    Don’t expose yourself as lacking any realism.
    markudman wrote: »
    got a reply from TS


    PCM are in the process of amending their signage/boards to remove the banned credit card charge. This process will take some considerable time in light of nearly 1 million boards to work on.
    I did say!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • The_Deep wrote: »
    If they are a registered charity, consider making a complaint to The Charity Commissioners
    did I miss something?
    We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose.
    If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    markudman wrote: »
    did I miss something?

    Quite possibly.

    From their website:
    Clarion Futures is our charitable foundation which will provide support, skills and opportunities to our residents across the UK. We have created Clarion Futures because we want to play a prominent role in helping our residents to develop their futures and maximise the opportunities available to them. Our mission is to provide people with the tools and support they need to overcome their challenges and help to transform lives and communities for the better.
  • edited 6 February 2018 at 11:33PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 6 February 2018 at 11:33PM
    Dear Trading Standards,

    I suggest you watch the Parliamentary debate about these cowboys from last Friday, up your game regarding your 'scam radar' and stop looking for reasons to defend private parking 'operators' as if they are a legitimate business:

    Watch the Parlimentary debate from last Friday about such scams, and read this Blog first:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

    Watch the debate here:

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    This rogue industry is skating on thin ice in 2018. These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so Trading Standards might wish to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if you feel you need further information about this scam. PCM are among the most notorious ex-clampers for predatory ticketing and the entire industry is a disgrace to this Country.

    Being in the IPC is not a good thing to spout to consumers (with respect, you sound as if you are quoting directly from some excuses PCM themselves have fed you, which is a hopeless approach to protect consumers). TS need to listen to the MP exposing the conflict of interests between the IPC and Gladstones Solicitors. It is high time TS woke up to the truth about the issues and understood why all MPs at the debate unanimously not only supported it, but actively jostled to be heard and join the protests about the outrageous practices and deliberately dodgy signs they had seen from constituents.

    Residential parking scams in particular were singled out for unanimous calls for action against the industry. Please watch the debate with other TS colleagues, as you appear not to be up to speed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    The 0845 number breaches Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. These regulations came from BIS, not Ofcom, and took effect on 13 June 2014.
    The omission of call costs from signage breaches Ofcom regulations that took effect 1 July 2015

    0845 numbers are premium rate 'phone numbers.

    I do not believe that any UK PPC has a million signs. I would suggest many of the signs used by CPM do not have advertising consent and are therefore illegal.
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  • edited 15 February 2018 at 1:44PM
    Ian011Ian011 Forumite
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    edited 15 February 2018 at 1:44PM
    markudman wrote: »
    got a reply from TS

    Parking Control Management (PCM) automated payment line is 0845 867 9445. This number is not a premium rate number regulated by the Phone-paid Services Authority. This is a non-geographic number charged at up to 10p per minute plus your phone company's access charge. Ofcom are responsible for the regulation of 084 numbers.
    All 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers are premium rate. The premium is the additional Service Charge paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider. Callers also pay an Access Charge to the benefit of the caller's landline or mobile provider.

    The Phone-paid Services Authority regulates Controlled Premium Rate Services (CPRS). CPRS covers 087, 09 and 118 numbers with a Service Charge of more than 7p per call or more than 7p per minute. The Service Charge for 084 numbers is never more than 7p per call or per minute. Where did that "10p" figure come from? It is incorrect. Service Charge information for any 084, 087, 09 or 118 number can be looked up at http://checkit.uboss.com/.

    In general, services using 084 numbers are not regulated by PSA - not unless the service is a chatline, "adult" entertainment service or is internet dialler-operated. Those three types of service are always designated as CPRS - irrespective of prefix used or price charged and hence are always regulated by PSA. This is detailed in Ofcom's PRS Condition.

    Usage of 084, 087 and 09 numbers is banned for after-sales enquiries and issues as mentioned below. Those regulations came from BIS. Complaints should be addressed to the Citizen's Advice national Consumer Helpline for escalation to the relevant Trading Standards department.
    markudman wrote: »
    Regulation 41 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 requires that where a trader operates a telephone line for the purpose of consumers contacting the trader by telephone in relation to contracts entered into with the trader, a consumer contacting the trader must not be bound to pay more than the basic rate. Slough Trading Standards clarified that the basic rate in this case is your phone company's access charge.
    Regulation 41(2) gives directions for how much must be refunded to the caller when the caller has had to call a number that does not comply with regulation 41, such as when calling a number starting 084, 087 or 09. However, Slough Trading Standards are mistaken as to what constitutes 'basic rate'. Basic rate is whatever the caller pays for an equivalent call to a geographic number starting 01 or 02 or to a non-geographic number starting 03.

    For inclusive calls to 01/02/03 numbers the rate paid by the caller is zero pence per minute. This means where the caller has inclusive calls to 01/02/03 numbers but had to call an 084/087/09 number, the refund is the entire call charge incurred - all of it, both the Access Charge and the Service Charge.
  • markudmanmarkudman Forumite
    350 posts
    Hi its been a while since I posted,
    I have been away fighting this I had no luck with the management company, I had no luck with the local MP, no luck with trading standards, I have now Printed a 1000 leaflets, set up a email address, a phone no, and have spoken to lots of residents and am going to fight from a different angle, we also have a election of councillors in May and am going to use this to get the MP to actually do something,

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose.
    If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.
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