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New power of attorney guide

edited 21 December 2011 at 3:19PM in Marriage, Relationships & Families
629 replies 128.9K views
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  • edited 15 December 2016 at 1:20AM
    Keep_pedallingKeep_pedalling Forumite
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    edited 15 December 2016 at 1:20AM
    pphillips wrote: »
    Technically yes, but jointly and severally majority decision appointments have only come about in very recent case law and I suggest you speak to a solicitor for advice and to get the wording right to prevent your LPA being rejected by the OPG.

    Interesting, the forms say decitions must be made unamously if you choose to have them act jointly, so they don't seem to have caught up yet.

    I would still go down the J&S route as jointly still leaves to much room for things to go pear shaped especially as there could be many years between a LPA benign resgistered and the need for attornies to actually act.

    Edit - purely for interest, could you provide a link to that case law. The only one I could find was from 2013 where attorneys appointed to act J&S had a restriction added that ment a majority decistion was required. This restriction was struck out by the court as it went against the principle of acting J&S, indicating you still can't do this.

    http://www.lpauk.com/majority-decisions-from-attorneys/
  • MalthusianMalthusian Forumite
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    Mav6215 wrote: »
    My questions is thus: Could I appoint all three as attorneys but that at least two of them must agree before decisions can be acted upon rather then completely jointly.

    Don't know but it's a terrible idea, for reasons others have outlined: 1) the high chance that the PoA will fail, 2) the possibility that your attorneys fall out, 3) even if they don't fall out it will take ages to make any decisions while paperwork goes back and forth.

    Which of the three attorneys don't you trust to make a decision on their own? Whichever it is, don't appoint them as an attorney at all. Then appoint the other two with power to act jointly and severally.

    You can appoint replacement attorneys so you could, for example, appoint your friend and wife as attorneys, with your daughter as replacement attorney to step in if your friend (or wife) died or lost capacity.

    Being an attorney is not rocket science so I can't see anything on your post as it stands that suggests your wife shouldn't be an attorney. Anyone who can run a household should be able to do it. Attorneys can (and should) take expert advice if their donor has financial arrangements which are beyond their ken.
  • MalthusianMalthusian Forumite
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    The government's guide suggests that trying to contort the document so that attorneys can make decisions by majority is definitely not allowed: (my emphasis)
    Don’t appoint attorneys to make decisions in one way, then include instructions to make them act differently.

    If you said your attorneys should act ‘jointly and severally’ – so they can make any decision on their own or together – you must not add these sorts of instructions:
    • that one attorney has to do what another attorney says
    • that one attorney must deal with your business and another with your private affairs
    • that where attorneys disagree, the majority should decide
    Your LPA won’t work if you include instructions like these.
    So ticking "jointly and severally" but saying in an instruction that they can decide by majority is explicitly ruled out. And ticking "jointly" but doing the same contradicts the text of the PoA in exactly the same way.

    Not that this matters because nobody would want to do it. Democracy is a good system for restricting the damage politicians can do to a nation state. It is not a good way to run an individual's affairs.
  • pphillipspphillips Forumite
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    Edit - purely for interest, could you provide a link to that case law. The only one I could find was from 2013 where attorneys appointed to act J&S had a restriction added that ment a majority decistion was required. This restriction was struck out by the court as it went against the principle of acting J&S, indicating you still can't do this.

    Sorry, I don't have the link and is why I suggest seeing a solicitor first if its something you want to pursue.
  • Thanks Pedalling.

    My dad said he went to see Help the Aged and they advised him not to. I'll be able to talk further at Christmas. All this came about because Mum had a bad fall and was in hospital for a couple of weeks.

    They have wills leaving their money to each other and I think he thinks that's enough. I'm surprised Help the Aged didn't talk about other options. I'll have to do some research before I go to see them at Christmas. I'm the only child too.

    By the way, it took me ages to find this thread again. Is there any way of bookmarking of finding a list of threads posted on recently? I've just added instant email notification - maybe that's enough?
  • Post Office Power of Attorney,
    I recently registered with Post Office as Power of Attorney for my Mum who is quite poorly in hospital.
    I got the confirmation from them that I was registered after sending the Financial POA Certificate.
    Now when I try to speak to the customer helpdesk for Mums card account they say that POA doesnt mean anything with the Post Office and the only way they will discuss the account is with Mum herself or with a "Permanent Agent".
    I thought POA allowed me to manage a bank or building society account, The other banks Ive registered with dont have a problem. Only the Post Office.
    Was I given false advice or is this really the Post Office policy?
  • xylophonexylophone Forumite
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    https://www.pofssavecredit.co.uk/POFS-NPS/contentHelp/frequently_asked_questions_websaver.html#7

    "Please note we will not agree to give anyone else authority over your Account except under an Enduring Power of Attorney or a Property and Financial Affairs Lasting Power of Attorney that is registered with the Court of Protection. Only in exceptional circumstances will we accept unregistered forms of Attorney or other third party authorities to operate the Account".

    Have you registered the Power as above?
  • Keep_pedallingKeep_pedalling Forumite
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    Chrissies wrote: »
    Thanks Pedalling.

    My dad said he went to see Help the Aged and they advised him not to. I'll be able to talk further at Christmas. All this came about because Mum had a bad fall and was in hospital for a couple of weeks.

    They have wills leaving their money to each other and I think he thinks that's enough. I'm surprised Help the Aged didn't talk about other options. I'll have to do some research before I go to see them at Christmas. I'm the only child too.

    That sounds odd, Age UK (as HTA has morphed into) have plenty of info on their website on LPAs and I would have thought they would be the last people to put someone off doing one, however as HTA has not been in existence for over 7 years I doubt if he has spoken to them recently.
  • That sounds odd, Age UK (as HTA has morphed into) have plenty of info on their website on LPAs and I would have thought they would be the last people to put someone off doing one, however as HTA has not been in existence for over 7 years I doubt if he has spoken to them recently.

    Thanks Pedalling. He says he went last week so he must've meant Age UK. I'll have a look at their site.

    My parents are very old school and my dad hates spending money. This would be a big cash outlay for him and that would put him off.

    I unfortunately have no spare cash. I've been paying off a debt in order to try to move house and have been really struggling - ahandfulofbeansblog.wordpress.com shows a bit of my journey if anyone's interested.
  • Has anyone tried the Which? LPA service that is mentioned in the recent MSE Weekly Newsletter? Does it add any value apart from the "paralegal" check? I can follow the official instructions on how to fill in a form does the Which? service have more common items that people like/usually add the LPAs on top of what is suggested in the official instructions? Thanks.
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