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Late arrive of PCN for leased vehicle - Highview Parking

I lease a vehicle from Citroen. The DVLA hold Citroen's details as the registered keeper of the vehicle. Citroen in turn hold my details as the keeper of the vehicle.

I received a letter yesterday (17th Dec 2015) from Citroen (dated 15th Dec), enclosing a copy of a Highview Parking Charge Notice (dated 10th Dec) with ANPR/ CCTV stills of my vehicle taken on the 2nd Dec at a carpark on Bradfield Road, Sheffield, S6.

Citroen have duly passed on my details to Highview, so I am expecting & preparing to deal wth the Charge Notice when it arrives at my address.

No window tickets were left on the vehicle on the day of the alleged violation.

As such, the 14 days stipulated in POFA Subparagraphs 9.4 & 9.5 have now been surpassed as I have not received the Charge Notice in the post yet. NB: to summarise, these subparagraphs state that the notice must be given by sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within 14 days starting the day after the parking period ended.

I've read the Newbie information in detail - and have searched this forum, but can't find an answer to my question... which is as follows.

If the process which Highview takes to identify my address as the Keeper, via DVLA and subsequently Citroen, exceeds the 14 days POFA allows Highvew to deliver the PCN, is that grounds to appeal the PCN?

I suspect my argument could be countered by Highview stating the Lease Company's address is a current service address, however the T&C's I suspect I have with Citroen state that my address is the service address & that liability for the processing of such charges lies with me as the leasee.

I'd welcome any advice or redirection to other threads where this has already been covered.

Cheers!
Marcin.
«1345

Replies

  • I'm happy to post anonymised copies of the two letters to which I refer in my OP, however I can't figure out how to attach images from my laptop to my posts... any suggestions on that are also welcomed!
  • QuentinQuentin Forumite
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    From what you say you aren't the "registered keeper", but Citroen are.


    And they were notified within the 14 days.


    But read up in the Newbies faq thread at the top of the forum for advice on appealing this on other grounds.
  • edited 19 December 2015 at 12:08AM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 19 December 2015 at 12:08AM
    EDIT - just thinking about the time period - 14.3 says this:

    (3)In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to the creditor.

    But the issue is likely to be what Highview miss out of the envelope IMHO. I've played this game v PE loads of times for people and the OP needs to also read the section of Schedule 4 about the extra documents that have to be enclosed with a Notice to Hirer. PE never send anything extra so Highview won't have either, IMHO:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

    Hire vehicles

    14(1)If—

    (a)the creditor is by virtue of paragraph 13(2) unable to exercise the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and

    (b)the conditions mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) below are met,

    the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.
    (2)The conditions are that—


    (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Guys_DadGuys_Dad Forumite
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    No chance on dates! They wrote to the registered keeper within the timescale and have a further period to write to you once they have been appraised of the fact that you are the current keeper.

    But the technical point c-m made is a real appeal point so watch out for their slip up.
  • CastleCastle Forumite
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    The correct process should be:-
    1) Highview has to write to the RK (Citroen) within 14 days.
    2) Citroen has to send Highview the details of the Hirer and the documents required by Para 13.2 within 28 days.
    3) Highview writes to the Hirer within 21 days of receiving the information from Citroen with a NTK and the documents required by para 13.2
    The hirer becomes the keeper but may not be the Driver!
  • [FONT=&quot]Thanks to all repliers - great support & clear infos!

    Special thanks to Coupon-Mad… I hope everyone has had a good and PCN-free Xmas!![/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]I’m sorry to post such a longwinded secondary question, but I want to be certain of the technicality in question.

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Here’s the update: yesterday I received the same PCN from Highview, but this time it is addressed to me as I am the hirer….

    I just spoke to a Citroen PCN Specialist Advisor in their PCN team... very helpful. He confirmed 2 things: [/FONT]
    1. [FONT=&quot]Citroen are the RK (as a previous replier suggested) and [/FONT]
    2. [FONT=&quot]Citroen have sent (together in one package) the 3 'extra' documents referred to within the Act; 13(2). (I also raised points, 13(2) & 4(7) which states that now that Citroen have passed on these documents, Highview’s right to claim against Citroen is no longer valid)[/FONT]


    As such, I now know that Highview have the 'extra' documents in their possession (since circa 17th December on the basis that my letter from Citroen was dated 15th Dec), at their disposal, but have not (yet) sent copies to me.


    The PCN to me from Highview states that from the 23rd Dec 15, Highview give me 28 days (19/1/16) to pay £85, which is reduced to £50 if paid in 14 days (5/1/16) respectively.


    It’s useful to note at this stage that clause 14 can be rewritten to apply to my case as follows:
    [FONT=&quot]14(1) If—[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](a)Highview is by virtue of paragraph [FONT=&quot]13(2)[/FONT] unable to exercise the right to recover from Citroen any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](b)the conditions mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) below are met, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Highview may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from elmarcinio. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](2) The conditions are that—[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](a)Highview has before 7th January 2016 given elmarcinio a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”) (which was done ‘correctly’), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph[FONT=&quot] 13(2) [/FONT]and the notice to keeper (none of the 4 extra docs have been received by elmarcinio as of 29th December);[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](b) the 12th January 2016 (a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given, 23rd Dec) has elapsed; and[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](c)the vehicle was not stolen.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot](3)In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to Highview (Citroen sent these on 15/12/15, allowing for post, the docs were received on 17th Dec, so the 21 days starts on 18th Dec and run until 7th January).[/FONT]
    So… my question at this stage, is; with the various dates flying around, how long should I leave before replying to Highview?


    My concern is that if I reply too early, reasoning that they did not provide the correct extra documents, then there is time for Highview to issue the documents.


    On the other hand, if I delay my reply, still reasoning as above, then I run the risk of having to pay a higher value if my contest is rejected.


    Can I throw this back to the floor for thoughts / guidance etc again??


    Thanks in advance.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    Appeal once you are past 21 days from the date when the company gave Highview the documents.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Thanks once again Coupon Mad... I've checked & rechecked the Newbie FAQ thread... is there a template you recomend I should use for this instance? I think day 21 is the 7th Jan, so I intend to write tomorrow / Friday.
  • Edna_BasherEdna_Basher Forumite
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    At this stage you're just after a POPLA code, so something short and sweet would do the trick.

    This is a tailored version of the sort of letter our company usually sends in response to a non-compliant Notice to Hirer (I have yet to see a compliant Notice to Hirer).

    Dear Sir,

    Parking Charge Notice [0123456789]: Vehicle Registration [AA11ABC]

    I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Highview Parking Ltd (“Highview”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

    You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Highview’s Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

    Given that Highview has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


    Yours faithfully,

    [Insert squiggle as signature]
  • Ha ha - great - thanks Edna! I've just spent a little time tweaking a super detailed letter that I borrowed from another poster, mnavarra in another similar thread! I'll email Highview with your shorter and sweeter note and save my detailed version for later or for POPLA, if required! :cool2:
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