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Windscreen ticket - PLEASE HELP!



  • My wife has just finished the draft letter appeal. I hope is ok as she did it after a 12 hours shift.
    Could you please check if it's ok... It seems that I need to submit it today, 16/12/12.

    Re: Parking Ticketing Limited PCN, reference code ....
    POPLA Code: .....

    I am the registered keeper and I wish to appeal a recent parking charge from Parking Ticketing Limited. I submit the points below to show that I am not liable for the parking charge:

    1) No genuine pre-estimate of loss
    2) The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the POFA 2012 - no keeper liability.
    3) No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers.
    4) The signage was inadequate so there was no valid contract formed.

    1) No genuine pre-estimate of loss
    The charge of £100 is punitive and unreasonable, contravening the BPA Code of Practice section 19. Parking Ticketing Limited must therefore be required to explain their 'charge' by providing POPLA with a detailed financial appraisal which evidences the genuine pre-estimated amount of loss in this particular site parking for this alleged contravention. However, with or without any 'breach', the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same and there was no loss or damage caused so Parking Ticketing Limited have no cause of action to pursue this charge. The fact that the recommended maximum level in section 19.5 (“we would not expect this amount to be more than £100”) has not been exceeded merely means that the operator does not have to justify the amount in advance. In no way does it absolve the operator of their responsibility to base the figure on a genuine pre-estimate of loss, or to comply with section 19.6 which states that the charge “cannot be punitive or unreasonable”.

    Parking Ticketing Limited cannot include their operational tax-deductible business running costs - for example, costs of signage, staffing and dealing later with the appeals, or hefty write-off costs. This would not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract and in any case I believe Parking Ticketing Limited are likely to be paid by their client - so any such payment income must be balanced within the breakdown Parking Ticketing Limited supply and must be shown in the contract, which leads me to appeal point 3 below.

    2) The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the POFA 2012 - no keeper liability
    No “notice to keeper received” therefore not compliant with POFA 2012. As of Wednesday 16th December 2015, 56 days since the charge notice was issued, no formal “notice to keeper” has been received as stipulated in POFA 2012.

    The alleged infringement occurred on 20/10/2015 and from my understanding the NTK was required to reach me by 15/12/2015. As none of the mandatory information set out by Schedule 4 paragraphs 8 and 9 of the PoFA has been made available to me as Registered Keeper the conditions set out by paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 has not been complied with. Therefore there can be no keeper liability and as a result I request that Parking Ticketing Limited provide evidence to POPLA of who the driver was.

    Therefore, Parking Ticketing Limited has not met the keeper liability requirements and, as a result, keeper liability does not apply. As the keeper of the vehicle I decline, as is my right, to provide the name of the driver(s) at the time. As Parking Ticketing Limited have neither named the driver(s) nor provided any evidence as to who the driver(s) were, I submit I am not liable to any charge.

    3) No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers
    I believe that this Operator has no proprietary interest in the land, so they have no standing to make contracts with drivers in their own right, nor to pursue charges for breach in their own name. In the absence of such title, Parking Ticketing Limited must have assignment of rights from the landowner to pursue charges for breach in their own right, including at court level. A commercial site agent for the true landholder has no automatic standing nor authority in their own right which would meet the strict requirements of section 7 of the BPA Code of Practice.

    I therefore put Parking Ticketing Limited to strict proof to provide POPLA and myself with an unredacted, contemporaneous copy of the contract between Parking Ticketing Limited and the landowner, not just another agent or retailer or other non-landholder, because it will still not be clear that the landowner has authorised the necessary rights to Parking Ticketing Limited.

    4) Unreasonable and unfair terms – no contract agreed to pay £100. Inadequate signage
    The only notices are up on walls, away from the view in the site parking area, which is not a 'sign' nor does it communicate full contractual terms & conditions. At the time of the contravention no signage was clearly visible by the vehicle. Any photos supplied by Parking Ticketing Limited to POPLA will no doubt show the signage in daylight or with the misleading aid of a close up camera with an extremely bright flash and the angle may well not show how high the sign is nor the fact the Parking Ticketing Limited signs are one of many pieces of information in the clutter of this residential site parking. As such, I require Parking Ticketing Limited to state the height of each sign in their response.

    Unreadable signage breaches Appendix B of the British Parking Association’s (BPA) Code of Practice which states that terms on entrance signs must be clearly readable without a driver having to turn away from the road ahead. A Notice is not imported into the contract unless brought home so prominently that the party 'must' have known of it and agreed terms beforehand. Nothing about this Operator's onerous inflated 'parking charges' was sufficiently prominent and it is clear that the requirements for forming a contract (i.e. consideration flowing between the two parties, offer, acceptance and fairness and transparency of terms offered in good faith) were not satisfied.

    This concludes my POPLA appeal.

    Yours faithfully,

    {keeper's name...}

    Many thanks
  • Guys_DadGuys_Dad Forumite
    11K Posts
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Make point 1 the last point since Beavis.
  • Thank you Guys Dad, I made the changes and submitted the appeal today.
  • Hi all,

    I've received an email from POPLA asking for comments on the file from Parking Ticketing Ltd in the next seven days...what is that? I cannot remember reading on the forum about getting an email from them..... can you advise please?! thanks a lot
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    105.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Yes this is what happens and it's likely the file has been posted to you (but check your junk/spam email as well). I don't think the files are yet visible on the POPLA Portal; that's something they intend to introduce but last time I looked in November, you could not view the file on the portal and PPCs had to email or post your copy to you as the appellant.

    If you haven't received it over the next week, just reply to POPLA and say so, and ask for an extension of time until you get the evidence pack.

    Then when you get it, come back here and show it to us and we can discuss rebuttal. In fact, a good idea is to search the forum for 'rebuttal' and you will find some examples discussed recently which will give you an idea.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
    36.3K Posts
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic

    Here's an excellent example of how one poster dealt effectively and comprehensively with a PPC's Evidence Pack. I'm sure this will give you plenty of ideas on how to handle your case.

    And another one to consider.

    And a further one.

    And a more recent one.

    Please note, some of these examples are now a little dated in the context of the fast moving world of private parking, so you need to be careful about blindly copying and pasting anything that 'looks good', and especially in the context of Beavis. But they do provide an insight into how to make a start on your rebuttal.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • Thank you Coupon-mad and Umkomaas for your replies and ... Merry Christmas!

    I've received the evidence pack from PTL by email as well.
    I have to leave now but I'll check the websites provided in the evening.

    Thanks a lot.
  • Hi all,

    Please help...again!!!!!!

    I've just analyzed the evidence from parking company and, I don't know how, it seems I ticked the wrong option on their appeal website and now they told Popla...what should I do? I need to send comments to Popla tomorrow......
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    105.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    No you don't have to send it by tomorrow.

    Email POPLA and tell them you only got the evidence pack Christmas week, and in view of the Christmas break you intend to respond by Monday 4th January by email and please can they put the case on hold in view of that. Do not expect a reply, they are probably closed for the week and it will be fine.

    Then tell us what you are panicking about.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I forgot to tell you I still haven't received the NTK...
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