Green Deal Home Improvement Fund - door slammed shut 24 July no further applications

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Energy
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  • Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    It's fair enough that the money has gone much quicker than expected.

    I am very p***ed off about this, as I have lost out almost £1m of turnover.

    We had about 150 gdar (thats £15,000 it cost me) which we did for free (on the requirement that we do the install and they apply for the voucher within 48 hours) to the customer, send them the GDAR and then THEY didnt apply for the vouchers and are now ringing up complaining about it when they had over a week to do so.

    There are some additional ones that didnt have 48 hours so thats fair enough.

    But the ones who have had almost a week to fill out a 5 minute application form its there own fault and its cost me £15,000 and I will be sending them letters next week for not keeping to the agreed t&cs and expecting them to pay for the GDAR as was in the T&Cs.

    Surely it is the case that all paid for gdar's should be refunded in full if the grant funded eligibility is refused ? otherwise its a case of charging entry for a show that can now never happen. Whether that show was stopped by a deliberate, reckless, or negligent act on the part of DECC is irrelevant to the terms of contract.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • edited 28 July 2014 at 10:06PM
    captainhindsight_2captainhindsight_2 Forumite
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    edited 28 July 2014 at 10:06PM
    Surely it is the case that all paid for gdar's should be refunded in full if the grant funded eligibility is refused ? otherwise its a case of charging entry for a show that can now never happen. Whether that show was stopped by a deliberate, reckless, or negligent act on the part of DECC is irrelevant to the terms of contract.

    Refunded by who though?

    I have waivered the cost to everyone who had a gdar 48 hours before applications closed out of goodwill. Any one who had a gdar before this has had plenty of time to apply for the voucher and its their own fault for not applying in time and they will not be getting a refund from me.

    If you are suggesting green deal companies should issue refunds by that same logic I should be seeking a refund from our printers who have printed thousands of now useless leaflets.

    The guidance 're this has always been very clear to apply asap before the money runs out and if people who have had plenty of time to apply have decided not to apply for a voucher it's their own fault.

    Also the show analagy doesn't apply as a GDAR has many other uses it will be valid for 2.years for when new applications open,.it can be used for RHI, to access ECO funding, the epc can be used for selling /renting etc...

    Edit: also grant funding hasn't been refussed, all that is happened is applications for this home improvement fund (one of many incentives under the Green Deal) has temporarily closed for new applications
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    Refunded by who though?

    I have wavered the cost to everyone who had a gdar 48 hours before applications closed out of goodwill. Any one who had a gdar before this has had plenty of time to apply for the voucher and its their own fault for not applying in time and they will not be getting a refund from me.

    If you are suggesting green deal companies should issue refunds by that same logic I should be seeking a refund from our printers who have printed thousands of now useless leaflets.

    The guidance 're this has always been very clear to apply asap before the money runs out and if people who have had plenty of time to apply have decided not to apply for a voucher it's their own fault.

    Also the show analogy doesn't apply as a GDAR has many other uses it will be valid for 2.years for when new applications open,.it can be used for RHI, to access ECO funding, the epc can be used for selling /renting etc...

    Edit: also grant funding hasn't been refused, all that is happened is applications for this home improvement fund (one of many incentives under the Green Deal) has temporarily closed for new applications

    Not personal to you, your presence here on MSE suggest you are clearly even handed and operating inside the rules. It does not change however the implicit contract rules that paying for an entry now denied means the entry was mis-sold in that first place. The UK is littered with personal loan, business loan, mortgage loan, PPI cover, minced [Fanny Mae] mortgages, Libor, RBS, British Gas & Sainsbury energy, pension annuities galore, buy-to-let deposits etc. The development of unnecessarily complex products always leads to ambulance-chasing compensation firms cashing in on the misery of the consumer which in turn results in mis-selling claims and compensation eventually being paid back.

    Who pays is yet to be determined. But even with the weight of GOV and DECC behind it someone should have to pay the money back, and 'the who' should be those who profit from the enterprise. You and others like you can then take your turn in court to try to recover from DECC / GOV.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • Smiley_Dan wrote: »
    To be clear: it's not the Green Deal that has been closed, it's the Green Deal Home Improvement Fund, which is separate.

    Unfortunate naming imo.

    It would probably help these schemes, for all sorts of reasons (see my other posts), if they could find people that have actually successfully sold products and services before to head them, rather than administrators and bureaucrats who are just interested in their own jobs and building a bigger empire.

    Couldn't agree more mate. The company that is carrying out cavity wall insulation for me is taking a very long time to sort things out. Don't know what their playing at.
  • captainhindsight_2captainhindsight_2 Forumite
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    Not to get into a political argument, but I feel this Home Improvement Fund was rushed in to bridge the gap in the mess with ECO.

    And the reason ECO is in such a mess is Ed Milibands idea to scrap ECO and freeze energy prices instead of making home more energy efficient.

    Because the energy companies turned round and said we're not spending any more money on ECO until we know what is happening and have some clarity etc. And the public turned round and said we want a review of ECO and Green Taxes etc.

    This lead to a public consultation and thankfully this government has recently published a plan in response to the public consultation for ECO until 2017 which should be uninterrupted and deliver free or low cost insulation to every body who needs it and heating systems to the most vulnerable.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • captainhindsight_2captainhindsight_2 Forumite
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    Also a email received from DECC last night, they are hoping to be able to provide more advice/information re this scheme mid-august after dealing with the back log of applications.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
  • highguyukhighguyuk Forumite
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    I firmly believe that we’ll hear no more news until at least the 5th August deadline has passed that was issued last Tuesday – so that if any scheme does come back online it’ll be at a reduced Solid Wall rate and without the Gas Flue Recovery system (not sure why this was removed from the 8 measures – surely it has a positive affect?)

    Then lots of individuals, including myself, will have to work out alternative ways to qualify for the scheme without the use of a GFHR system. I don’t quite understand how I give a voucher to pay for the works to 2 different companies (ie A Plumber & a Loft Insulation Company) but I’m sure it’ll become apparent…
  • lstar337lstar337 Forumite
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    highguyuk wrote: »
    I firmly believe that we’ll hear no more news until at least the 5th August deadline has passed that was issued last Tuesday – so that if any scheme does come back online it’ll be at a reduced Solid Wall rate and without the Gas Flue Recovery system (not sure why this was removed from the 8 measures – surely it has a positive affect?)

    Then lots of individuals, including myself, will have to work out alternative ways to qualify for the scheme without the use of a GFHR system. I don’t quite understand how I give a voucher to pay for the works to 2 different companies (ie A Plumber & a Loft Insulation Company) but I’m sure it’ll become apparent…
    I expect it was removed because it made it too easy for people to qualify.
  • Smiley_DanSmiley_Dan Forumite
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    Not to get into a political argument, but I feel this Home Improvement Fund was rushed in to bridge the gap in the mess with ECO.
    Nah, let's get into a political argument :D (only joking)
    And the reason ECO is in such a mess is Ed Milibands idea to scrap ECO and freeze energy prices instead of making home more energy efficient.
    The first question to ask is why these schemes exist at all. Is it to lower carbon? Is it to lower household bills? I don't know the answer to that, because the design of the schemes suggest neither of the above.

    I think the ideal solution *is* to scrap ECO, but also make homes more efficient as well.

    It's just wrong headed to involve the energy companies in something they a fundamentally opposed to. Worse, maintaining their support costs government time and money... look at the collation of responses to the ECO consultation you mentioned. It's basically the energy co's saying "there's no need to lower carbon emissions that much" and everyone else saying the opposite. Well, no s**t...

    The result is watered down targets.

    I can see why they are involved. Government seems to see private enterprise as some sort of cash cow to be milked. The trouble is, whenever they do this they (Gub'mint) always end off worse. See: the banks, the railways, Royal Mail etc etc. Government are too naive to deal with the private sector and yet they are in a position to think long term, not something the private sector, especially publicly owned behemoths like the energy companies, can do due to modern quarterly accounting practices.

    The other argument is "the polluter pays", but the energy co's aren't really the polluters... the users of the energy are.

    Which brings us around to insulation again. What the government should be doing is viewing this as a grand infrastructure project. Lower energy use in residential and commercial buildings by the rollout of generous subsidies for energy efficiency materials. By investing in lowering our energy use we get strategic and financial benefits down the road. We can say what we want to to Russia.
  • captainhindsight_2captainhindsight_2 Forumite
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    I think the main reason for schemes to insulate etc are to ensure energy security, as it is much cheaper to insulate eveybodies homes and reduce energy demand than it is to find/create energy/ fossil fuels etc..

    And reducing people's bills and carbon emissions is just a good side affect of the main goal.

    It would be interesting to see the total cost of these schemes and the amount of KWH saved and to compare this to say the cost of building power stations to meet the same amount of energy that has been saved.
    "talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish" - Euripides
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