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  • bazsterbazster Forumite
    7.4K Posts
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Maybe complaints to the DVLA should not be on the basis of breach of BPA CoP, which is easily dismissed. Instead, approach it as a breach of the PPC's KADOE contract with the DVLA (which is a result of breach of BPA Ltd CoP). That makes it something relating to the direct relationship between PPC and DVLA - they can't get the BPA to investigate a breach of contract they were not party to (hmm, now where have I seen that before - a third party being responsible for someone else's contract).

    What the DVLA never tells anyone when they brush off complaints is that they actually have a formal complaints procedure:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

    It escalates through various stages until eventually you finish up (via your MP) at the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

    In my opinion the advice often given here is incorrect. It may seem like a good idea to complain directly to someone in the team which handles data release (such as the email address given in the sticky), but in reality this makes it easy for those people to bury complaints without them being properly recorded or addressed.

    I believe complaints should begin with the "customer complaint resolution team", and they should be in writing (in my experience if you fill in the online form it just goes into a black hole):

    CCRT
    D16W
    DVLA
    Swansea
    SA6 7JL

    These people must properly record the complaint otherwise they risk the wrath of the ombudsman, and when they approach the relevant DVLA department about the complaint it can't simply be brushed off and buried (as happens when you complain directly to the data sharing people) because it's already "in the system" and formally recorded as a complaint.

    I'm quite used to getting complaints brushed off by local and national governmental bodies, but the DVLA is the only one I've encountered which, when dismissing a complaint, fails to appraise you of its formal complaints procedure so you know where to escalate it. Quite disgraceful in my opinion.

    Anyway, to summarise:

    - Complain to the DVLA about matters specifically in the DVLA's remit, namely that the PPC is in breach of its KADOE contract

    - any breach of the BPA AOS CoP (or the Red Cow Yard Gang CoP) is a breach of the KADOE contract

    - failure to follow the OfT debt collection guidance is also a breach of the KADOE contract

    - requesting keeper details for something other than pursuing parking charges is a breach of the KADOE contract, ergo the likes of VCS breach the KADOE contract every time they request keeper details over an airport stopping "offence"; it's also a breach of the Data Protection Act i.e. using data for a purpose other than that for which it was obtained

    - the complaint should expressly state that it is a complaint about a breach of the KADOE contract (and, where applicable, a breach of the DPA) and as such it must be dealt with by DVLA and must not be fobbed off to a third party

    - it should be sent to the above address

    - it should then be escalated to the point where you are asking your MP to take the complaint to ombudsman.
    Je suis Charlie.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    105.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Just linked this post to post #6 of the NEWBIES thread and I have deleted Liz Symons as the contact - I agree with everything you say above. Good point!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    :)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • StromaStroma Forumite
    8K Posts
    Uniform Washer
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes it's a very good point, I am willing to meet the dvla face to face for people, or hand deliver anything to them, the dvla is about 3-4 miles away from my house and it's no problem.
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • bazsterbazster Forumite
    7.4K Posts
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Found this on PePiPoo:

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/meetings_with_the_bpa#incoming-519900

    I was particularly struck by this:

    X spoke about complaints and the media attention, the cross-examination we
    are dealing with and said it seems like there is a campaign on and Data
    Sharing are being bombarded. X explained it would be easier for customers
    if there were clearer guidelines regarding POPLA & POFA. X said it’s
    unsustainable, like a cottage industry if we work together to shut down the
    challenges and use common sense to change the Terms & Conditions


    So if Data Sharing are being "bombarded" how come FOI requests show that virtually no complaints have been received about PPC's? Someone is telling porky pies.

    And how dare the DVLA suggest that they "work together [presumably with the BPA and PPC's] to shut down the challenges". Yet more evidence that the DVLA is far from impartial and is in the BPA's pocket.

    Even more outrageously:

    X suggested working with DVLA to differentiate between those who make
    legitimate comments and those whose agenda is to break the system. The
    amount of time taken up in handling these complaints which could be put to
    better use, was discussed.


    This could've come straight from Kev McManus. It seems that the DVLA reps present failed to explain that, as a government agency, their duty is to respond to each complaint on its own terms and not make judgements as to the motives of the complainer.
    Je suis Charlie.
  • StromaStroma Forumite
    8K Posts
    Uniform Washer
    ✭✭✭✭
    My concern with writing to them as in complaints through the post is that they deny ever receiving them, we know that the dvla loses lots of mail, though they imply it was never sent.
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • da_ruleda_rule Forumite
    3.6K Posts
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    ✭✭✭✭
    What's the DVLA's record like on things that have been sent signed for/recorded? I have sent a driving licence application that way and they signed for it etc.
  • bazsterbazster Forumite
    7.4K Posts
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Stroma wrote: »
    My concern with writing to them as in complaints through the post is that they deny ever receiving them, we know that the dvla loses lots of mail, though they imply it was never sent.

    So you get a proof of posting, and if you get no reply you jump straight to the next level of the complaints procedure. That's a good thing, it gets you to bypass one level of brush-off.
    Je suis Charlie.
  • 007stuart007stuart Forumite
    51 Posts
    bazster wrote: »
    What the DVLA never tells anyone when they brush off complaints is that they actually have a formal complaints procedure:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

    It escalates through various stages until eventually you finish up (via your MP) at the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

    In my opinion the advice often given here is incorrect. It may seem like a good idea to complain directly to someone in the team which handles data release (such as the email address given in the sticky), but in reality this makes it easy for those people to bury complaints without them being properly recorded or addressed.

    I believe complaints should begin with the "customer complaint resolution team", and they should be in writing (in my experience if you fill in the online form it just goes into a black hole):

    CCRT
    D16W
    DVLA
    Swansea
    SA6 7JL

    These people must properly record the complaint otherwise they risk the wrath of the ombudsman, and when they approach the relevant DVLA department about the complaint it can't simply be brushed off and buried (as happens when you complain directly to the data sharing people) because it's already "in the system" and formally recorded as a complaint.

    I'm quite used to getting complaints brushed off by local and national governmental bodies, but the DVLA is the only one I've encountered which, when dismissing a complaint, fails to appraise you of its formal complaints procedure so you know where to escalate it. Quite disgraceful in my opinion.

    Anyway, to summarise:

    - Complain to the DVLA about matters specifically in the DVLA's remit, namely that the PPC is in breach of its KADOE contract

    - any breach of the BPA AOS CoP (or the Red Cow Yard Gang CoP) is a breach of the KADOE contract

    - failure to follow the OfT debt collection guidance is also a breach of the KADOE contract

    - requesting keeper details for something other than pursuing parking charges is a breach of the KADOE contract, ergo the likes of VCS breach the KADOE contract every time they request keeper details over an airport stopping "offence"; it's also a breach of the Data Protection Act i.e. using data for a purpose other than that for which it was obtained

    - the complaint should expressly state that it is a complaint about a breach of the KADOE contract (and, where applicable, a breach of the DPA) and as such it must be dealt with by DVLA and must not be fobbed off to a third party

    - it should be sent to the above address

    - it should then be escalated to the point where you are asking your MP to take the complaint to ombudsman.


    Can this not be added to the "Advice to Newbies" thread?
  • bod1467bod1467
    15.2K Posts
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe it already has been.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    105.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    007stuart wrote: »
    Can this not be added to the "Advice to Newbies" thread?
    Yep I posted above already, that I had added it to post #6 of the NEWBIES thread, the part about complaining to the DVLA. :)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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