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Parking Eye Crown Wharf Walsall fine do I appeal or ignore

Was visiting my partner in Walsall and went shopping on the weekend, we were not familiar with the parking rules/area, didn't realise we needed a ticket and received a PCN from Parking Eye yesterday

I suspect we may receive another fine as we visited Crown Wharf twice on the weekend! :(

Having read a few posts on MSM what is the general consensus? Do I ignore all letters from them demanding me to pay the fine? or shall I appeal?

Not sure if this is relevant but we did do some shopping :)


  • RedxRedx Forumite
    38.1K Posts
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    you definitely have not received any fines as that would be illegal seeing as parking is decriminalised

    you received parking invoices for breaking their "rules"

    the word fine wont be anywhere on the paperwork

    you have also missed reading the sticky thread at the top of this forum , for NEWBIES to read, tells you everything you need to know

    in a few months time it will be 2 YEARS since the law changed due to POFA 2012 , meaning only a fool would ignore a pcn , so dont ignore any in england or wales

    if you ignore PE you will be in small claims court in a few months time
  • toni2014toni2014 Forumite
    8 Posts
    It is a parking charge notice, which shows a pic of my vehicle entering and leaving, do I have grounds for a successful appeal?

    I shall certainly read the sticky thread, cheers
  • RedxRedx Forumite
    38.1K Posts
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    everybody does, on the appeal grounds listed in the template of the appeal in that sticky thread , pointless asking any questions until you have read and understand this new game you are playing, and the rules of the game ;)
  • toni2014toni2014 Forumite
    8 Posts
    Cheers! Will have a good read, and report back if I require further advice...
  • edited 31 May 2014 at 5:14PM
    105.5K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 31 May 2014 at 5:14PM
    We have 100% record at POPLA so once you've read the sticky thread start the process 'Round 1' by sending the template appeal to PE online so it's free for you. Also search this forum board for 'Walsall' or 'Crown Wharf' as keywords as I am pretty sure others have already won at POPLA and shown their POPLA appeals written especially for that place, which would mean you could copy & paste their versions at 'round 2' as well.

    Also I seem to recall the 'Successful Complaints about PPCs' sticky thread (collated by Crabman in his 'Parking board stickies' post near the top of the forum), has at least one PE case cancelled when a customer with receipts has kicked up a stink with the Centre or retailer Store Management.

    ALWAYS COMPLAIN as well as doing the stupid 'appeal' - the customer is King! This isn't a fine. It's an insult.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • toni2014toni2014 Forumite
    8 Posts
    Dear {company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

    PCN number xxxxxxx
    As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

    1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
    2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
    3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
    4) Enclosed photocopy of River Island receipt of goods purchased

    Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

    - the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

    - if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    - if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

    - if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

    Take formal note:

    (a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

    (b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

    (c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

    By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.


    {the registered keeper's name}
  • toni2014toni2014 Forumite
    8 Posts
    Is the above okay for me to send as my first appeal? can I email it to them? or send via recorded delivery?

    anything else i should add to the appeal?
  • nads911uknads911uk Forumite
    6 Posts
    Be wary the PE web site is limited to 3000 charecters so I had problem posting such a appeal reason and did it in 2 chunks for the same car park btw :(
  • toni2014toni2014 Forumite
    8 Posts
    Is the above okay for me to send as my first appeal? can I email it to them? or send via recorded delivery?

    anything else i should add to the appeal?
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
    36.3K Posts
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Yep, email it, but you may fall foul of the 3,000 characters. In which case you will need to send it snail mail, but don't go wasting money on 'signed for' (recorded) delivery; just get yourself a free 'certificate of posting' from your PO - that's proof you sent something to PE - that's sufficient.

    Despite all we think about and deride PE for, they are generally receptive to 'proof of purchase' evidence, and often cancel charges.

    Even if they don't, come back and we will see you through to success on this. Don't worry!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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