Anglia Research Services - Intestate Wills

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
71 replies 45.3K views
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  • madbadrobmadbadrob Forumite
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    BobQ wrote: »
    Its an interesting insight into the industry provided by madbadrob.

    As someone who has done a fair bit of genealogical research for myself I think if I had received the letter I would at least look at the family surnames I knew were in my ancestry and compare with the Treasury List before I signed anything, on the off chance that one of the more unusual names might be there. If it was, I might try a little more genealogy in that area.

    However, I agree you could spend a lot of effort trying to prove such a relationship particularly with a common surname, with no guarantee of any success.


    I can understand that reasoning however by the time you have done the research and found out which heir it is we are working we would have an heir signed and the claim into the treasury. They only accept the first valid claim they receive so you would be back to the scenario I made about having to prove your descent from the deceased or signing with the probate genealogy firm. On a close kin case it may be more beneficial to prove the descent yourself but when it comes to a cousin one or two generations removed you could end up paying out far more than you receive.
    BobQ wrote: »
    So if you are the heir to a £1m fortune and they take a third of it you have nothing to lose? Bizzare.

    Actually no because until such time as you receive that letter or that phone call you knew nothing about the estate and therefore you had nothing. Now you know you have a share of an estate you still dont have anything because the claim at this stage as still not been proved. Now lets look at an estate I am working at the minute. The value of the bank account is at present 40k. There are 13 heirs to this money. The division isnt 40/13 because this is split over two sides of the family with further deaths etc. The lowest share will end up with around £600.

    Now that £600 more than they had before I found the estate. My commission is significantly lower than what this person would have had to pay in certificates even if they could have got the ones from Canada. Canadian rules on BMD certs is nearly as complicated and restrictive as Australian certs. But just as an example the Candian Marriage cert of the deceased father was in its own right £28 and then there was the birth cert at the same price and the death cert of this childs mother. Add in to that 7 Uk certs @£9.25 each and you have a figure that is close to £150. Now the deceased in this case was back in the mid 70's declared missing presumed dead by a court so this family would never have looked for the deceased.

    Now the question is would you risk £150 obtaining the relevant documents on an estate that you have no idea what it is worth? Bear in mind that the Treasury list holds all estates with a minimum value of £500 so you could end up spending that on estates worth £500. which in the case I describe above would after you took out your £150 be worth to the lowest percentile valid claimant 11.90 So for the average time taken to research prove and then administer being 40 hours you would have worked for 30p an hour

    Rob
  • edited 27 December 2013 at 12:01PM
    potter21potter21 Forumite
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    edited 27 December 2013 at 12:01PM
    Thanks for your reply. No it is not the Anglia case. My dads mother and deceased father were brother and sister so my dad was the deceased cousin. What is my relationship to the deceased? I am only guessing that there may not be a will and if there is a first cousin on the deceased mothers side will anything left intestate go to them and I would like to know if I would be entitled to what would have been given to my father. Hope that you can clarify the situation. Regards Potter
  • edited 27 December 2013 at 12:59PM
    John_PierpointJohn_Pierpoint Forumite
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    edited 27 December 2013 at 12:59PM
    full-relationshipchart.gif

    Obviously you could have a similar tree back into history on you mother's side.

    family_relationships.jpg

    With thanks to
    http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/contents/familyhistoryguidepart1
    http://www.findersuk.com/cms/photo/misc/family_relationships.jpg

    Note the Celtic fringes of the British Isles have different rules.

    It is just possible something from further back in history has triggered the situation, such as the reversion of a lease on land.
    [When I was house hunting around Stevenage in Herts., the land on the East side of the town was (in theory) all owned by someone who had leased it out on a 500 year lease].
  • madbadrobmadbadrob Forumite
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    potter21 wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply. No it is not the Anglia case. My dads mother and deceased father were brother and sister so my dad was the deceased cousin. What is my relationship to the deceased? I am only guessing that there may not be a will and if there is a first cousin on the deceased mothers side will anything left intestate go to them and I would like to know if I would be entitled to what would have been given to my father. Hope that you can clarify the situation. Regards Potter


    The answer is not so straightforward. John's post showing the intestacy order explains it a lot easier that I could. Use the ME as the deceased

    Rob
  • BobQBobQ Forumite
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    madbadrob wrote: »
    I can understand that reasoning however by the time you have done the research and found out which heir it is we are working we would have an heir signed and the claim into the treasury. ...........................

    Rob[ /QUOTE]

    Rob,

    I appreciate the economic and time issues you are referring to make it unlikely that an individual would be able to compete with the industry you represent.

    I have to confess I find aspects of this business somewhat distasteful. Its one thing for the executor of an estate to use a firm like yours to find heirs, but quite another IMO for a firm to monitor the estates of those without wills and then seek to profit from hunting down heirs. That said I cannot see much difference between your industry profiting and heirs who never even knew them profiting.

    Nothing personal !
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • madbadrobmadbadrob Forumite
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    Bob,

    To be fair we are doing the heirs a favour. Many of these estates end up with the money going to people who didnt even know about the deceased. Therefore without companies like my own this money would end up in the governments coffers. Now that I find distasteful. I would also argue that the profit we make is actually in reality very small when you think of the work we put in.

    I do agree in the past there was big money to be made from this line of work but thanks to the TV program there are now so many small companies run by retired people that the commission rates have fallen drastically. That said I dont charge a large amount and even have in place max fees so has not to take too much from an estate.

    Rob
  • Rob I value your contribution to this page and I would be grateful for your expert opinion. When it comes to inheritance does a first cousin on the mothers side get priority over a first cousin once removed on the fathers side or are the both counted as equal in law under section 7 of the list that bob posted. I and anyone else new to this situation would be grateful for a reply to this question. With respect Potter
  • madbadrobmadbadrob Forumite
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    Potter,

    The answer to that is no. The easiest way to explain this is that when you get to the aunts and uncles scenario the inheritance is split 50/50 s hald goes down the paternal side and the other half down the maternal side. Therefore cousins would get a share of 50 percent assuming that the parent of that cousin had died.

    As an example.

    JOe bloggs dies intestate leaving no wife or children. His parents have also predeceased him. He has no siblings. Therefore we have to go to grandparents. all four of these have died. So now we are at the aunt and uncles stage. On the paternal side there is one uncle and on the maternal side one aunt. The uncle has died leaving 2 children one of which has also died leaving one child. Therefore the estate would pay 50% of the estate to the surviving aunt on the maternal side. On the paternal side the split would be 25% to the surviving cousin and 12.5% each to the cousins once removed. All have an equal right to this money even though there is another generation involved.

    I hope that makes sense

    Rob
  • If I understand what you have described I and any other descendants on my side of the family (the fathers side) have an entitlement to 50% share of the estate and the other descendants on the mothers side have a 50% share of the estate. Each side of the family to divide as you described. I have known my cousin (the deceased) all my life as part of my fathers family he was the only one left on my side of the family that I know about but there may be others that I don't know about. I am glad that you replied, your expert knowledge on the subject given freely is invaluable to members of the forum. All the best Potter.
  • Thank you John for putting the charts on the forum I and others will no doubt find them very useful. Potter
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