EDF call for flat prices and Ofgem's nonsensical response

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  • C_MababejiveC_Mababejive Forumite
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    We should keep the current system with as many choices and tarriffs as the suppliers can invent.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
  • Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    A starting point

    We should go with the 'petrol forecourt' pricing as the original EDF suggestion makes clear. All big 6 suppliers required by law to provide the tariff, which would be no (1) no standing charge (2) e-account (3) meter reads and a (4) unit cost for for gas, and one for (6) electricity. Those resellers outside the big six can accommodate any group they choose, they don't pay the levy anyway.

    A clear and unambiguous price per unit that is instantly comparable. Anyone wishing a different variation on a tariff can have one at whatever cost the supplier decides .. .. and pay for it. 99% of the UK domestic market would fit into the 'petrol forecourt' tariff and I'm sure would treat it in the same way they do the 'petrol forecourts'.

    Self interest is a normal human trait, happily exploited by both the suppliers and Ofgen, in this case the divide & conquer strategy employed by the big 6 suppliers was unnecessary, we the population are doing it for them. What we lovingly call freedom of choice is no such thing, its just a business opportunity for the suppliers that they don't even have to waste profits fighting for.

    Flat pricing for 99% of the domestic market folks - (1) no standing charge (2) e-account (3) meter reads and a (4) unit cost for for gas, and one for (6) electricity. The 12 regional distributors / suppliers were conquered by Thatcher 23 years ago unless we have flat pricing this debate will still be happening in another 23 years supported by Ofgem and we will still be paying for our divisions.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • brewerdavebrewerdave Forumite
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    We should keep the current system with as many choices and tarriffs as the suppliers can invent.



    ...100% agreement here -keeps me amused adapting and revising spreadsheets to carry out all the "what if" calculations- why should I be disadvantaged by dumbing down!!!!:T
  • "EDF backs calls to introduce a single unit price for gas and electricity - but isn't going to introduce it on its own..."
    Read the full story:

    EDF wants single prices for energy - but won't do it alone

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    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
  • joncombejoncombe Forumite
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    I certainly support this. The Ofgem proposals do nothing to simplify billing. They just replace two unit prices with a standing charge and a unit price. The standing charge is not being used to recover fixed costs because in the case of Npower at least, it can vary by as much as a factor of 3 across their tariffs. So there are still two prices to compare, which can vary a lot between suppliers and tariffs and the calculation as to which is cheaper is not so simple. Really the replacement of two tier rates with a single tier and standing charge is a price rise targeted at low users.

    A single unit rate and no standing charge on the other hand IS a simplfication because then there is a single value to compare making comparison very simple.
  • davidgmmafandavidgmmafan Forumite
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    Energy regulator Ofgem says the idea isn't "as simple as it sounds"

    Is this the same regulator that, relatively recently, said suppliers have the option of having no standing charge at all?

    In the space of a few weeks this has now become impossible???

    I may actually speak to them about this, it annoys me THAT much.

    I don't even understand the argument about discounts, what difference does one price per unit and no standing charge make to discounts? Whether you do it as a flat amount if discount, like fifty quid, or as a percentage of the price per unit its still way less complicated than it would otherwise be.

    :eek:
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  • CardewCardew Forumite
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    I don't even understand the argument about discounts, what difference does one price per unit and no standing charge make to discounts? Whether you do it as a flat amount if discount, like fifty quid, or as a percentage of the price per unit its still way less complicated than it would otherwise be.

    :eek:

    There are currently discounts for:

    Dual fuel.

    Payment methods(Direct debit, standing order etc)

    The above can be paid in a variety of ways, x pence per day, y pence per kWh - for all kWh or to a fixed limit.

    Loyalty - e.g £100 after 12 months as a customer.

    Perks - e.g. Nectar points

    Combining gas/electricity supply gets you cheaper/free phone calls/internet etc.

    Discounts can make tariffs far more complicated to understand than two tier or daily charge.
  • Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    Cardew wrote: »
    Utility companies sell the same product (i.e. gas and electricity) produced from the same sources and delivered by the same pipes and wires.

    So what real scope does any single company have to undercut their opposition.

    Would firms like, say, UW be banned from including gas and electricity in their 'package' deals of phone/internet/mobile etc?

    A big company like, say, BG which is backed by Centrica, could sell gas and electricity as a 'loss leader' and put much of the opposition out of business - except it is illegal.

    So if the EDF idea was adopted with flat prices and no discounts, what would be the spread of prices between the companies - 1%? 2%?

    HiYa Cardew,

    If the spread of prices between the big 6 companies was ≡ ± 1-2% that would indicate one of two things, a cartel or a level playing field, one to be welcomed with open arms - the other to be investigated. EDF favour nuclear because they own & build it. France has a surplus of energy and have energy security for a decade or more - they built while we .. .. thought and thunk and still continue to think, endlessly about it forever & ever. EDF own & operate 15/8 nuclear plants in the UK, including two AGRs 8 miles from my house, they also are busy in the US & China.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • thorthor Forumite
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    HiYa Cardew,

    If the spread of prices between the big 6 companies was ≡ ± 1-2% that would indicate one of two things, a cartel or a level playing field, one to be welcomed with open arms - the other to be investigated.
    My vote is cartel. The utilities know that no matter how much they raise their prices they won't have to worry about losing customers as the other companies will eventually match the increases. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen one company after another announcing 15 to 17% rises in quick succession. Of course you get all the apologists crawling out of the woodwork claiming that they all use the same resources and will be equally affected by increases but one of the posts above said that EDF uses nuclear power.
  • CardewCardew Forumite
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    HiYa Cardew,

    If the spread of prices between the big 6 companies was ≡ ± 1-2% that would indicate one of two things, a cartel or a level playing field, one to be welcomed with open arms - the other to be investigated. EDF favour nuclear because they own & build it. France has a surplus of energy and have energy security for a decade or more - they built while we .. .. thought and thunk and still continue to think, endlessly about it forever & ever. EDF own & operate 15/8 nuclear plants in the UK, including two AGRs 8 miles from my house, they also are busy in the US & China.

    Hi,

    EDF also sell gas!
    what would be the spread of prices between the companies - 1%? 2%?

    The 1-2% was a posed as a question! What figure do you suggest?

    That EDF are French and own nuclear power stations is not in dispute.

    However my understanding is that energy producers are still not allowed 'sweetheart' deals with their distribution arm. e.g. Centrica cannot sell gas exclusively to BG at a cut price; hence my reference to 'loss leader' in the post.
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