Self employment & Universal Credit (yet again)

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Benefits & Tax Credits
14 replies 1.8K views
BBBNHBBBNH Forumite
130 Posts
edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Benefits & Tax Credits
Apologies if this has been asked a million times, i can't find nothing relating directly to it.

Ok, those who are self employed need to be earning minimum wage in order to qualify for UC? Is that before or after expenses? With regards to the current rules, under the tax credit system, are you supposed to earn minimum wage before or after expenses?

What happens to parents who are together and also lone parents once their child starts school? How many hours are they supposed to work (both those that are employed & self employed?)

I just want to be prepared & i also want to inform some of my friends who are totally oblivious.
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  • BigAuntyBigAunty Forumite
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    Under the current tax credit system, there are no rules that require the working tax credit claimant to have a profit related to the NMW - WTC is based on hours worked, not income. A claimant can currently get WTC and all other associated benefits based on their income, however low it is.

    I can't definatively answer for the NMW under UC but I expect that this is net profit, after expenses and tax. Turnover is a pointless way of measuring business success - someone who turns over £100,000k and makes only 1% net profit is a worse business person than another who turns over £20k and manages a 10% profit. A claimant with a big turnover but tiny profit is still going to be benefit dependent - the whole point of UC is to stop the ceaseless rise in low or no profit businesses that people set up to escape JSA or enjoy their rent and council tax paid indefinately....
  • BBBNHBBBNH Forumite
    130 Posts
    BigAunty wrote: »
    Under the current tax credit system, there are no rules that require the working tax credit claimant to have a profit related to the NMW - WTC is based on hours worked, not income. A claimant can currently get WTC and all other associated benefits based on their income, however low it is.

    I can't definatively answer for the NMW under UC but I expect that this is net profit, after expenses and tax. Turnover is a pointless way of measuring business success - someone who turns over £100,000k and makes only 1% net profit is a worse business person than another who turns over £20k and manages a 10% profit. A claimant with a big turnover but tiny profit is still going to be benefit dependent - the whole point of UC is to stop the ceaseless rise in low or no profit businesses that people set up to escape JSA or enjoy their rent and council tax paid indefinately....

    Thank you.

    So as a lone parent working 16 hours self employed, I need to be clearing NMW every week after my expenses in order to qualify?

    Any idea how many hours lone parents need to increase their hours to once their child is of school age under UC?
  • HappyMJHappyMJ Forumite
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    BBBNH wrote: »
    Thank you.

    So as a lone parent working 16 hours self employed, I need to be clearing NMW every week after my expenses in order to qualify?

    Any idea how many hours lone parents need to increase their hours to once their child is of school age under UC?
    Yes...you will still qualify anyway even if you don't earn enough but you will be expected to look for further work to increase your gross profit. You will never be subject to work trials or anything like that.
    :footie:
    :p Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) :p Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. :p
  • I hope to have time to read through all your posts properly at some pont, but in the meantime I thought you might be interested in my blog post about how the Universal Credit rules will affect the self-employed. I am a new user and they won't allow me to post links, but do a Google search for Permaculture House in Totnes and you'll find it. Also search Facebook for Universal Credit and the Self Employed.
  • rogerblackrogerblack Forumite
    9.4K Posts
    I hope to have time to read through all your posts properly at some pont, but in the meantime I thought you might be interested in my blog post about how the Universal Credit rules will affect the self-employed. I am a new user and they won't allow me to post links, but do a Google search for Permaculture House in Totnes and you'll find it. Also search Facebook for Universal Credit and the Self Employed.

    Some of the above (at http://www.permaculturehouseintotnes.co.uk/ ) is misleading - as there are provisions for startup buisnesses, where the requirement for earnings will not apply, and the requirement for childcare can limit work hours, similarly with disability.
    In some cases the treatment of the disabled with small buisnesses - especially single people with no housing costs - is lots more generous.

    But it's a good general outline, and recommended.
  • My wife is self employed.

    And after struggling to find proper employment I phoned up about ESA.

    The person I spoke to says your partner needs to be working at least 16 and up to 24hours a week, not 24 as that means a reduction in benefits even if the mariner is earning £1 an hour!

    It didn't make sense but then again when does the benefit system ever do that unless you are the mind of claimant that knows all the ins and outs and treats claiming as a career.
  • sammyjammysammyjammy Forumite
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    bigjl wrote: »
    My wife is self employed.

    And after struggling to find proper employment I phoned up about ESA.

    The person I spoke to says your partner needs to be working at least 16 and up to 24hours a week, not 24 as that means a reduction in benefits even if the mariner is earning £1 an hour!

    It didn't make sense but then again when does the benefit system ever do that unless you are the mind of claimant that knows all the ins and outs and treats claiming as a career.

    This thread is about Universal Credit. Anyone you speak to in DWP on the frontline is likely to know as much as the average man on the street at present, except in the Pathfinder area.
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
  • WantToBeSEWantToBeSE Forumite
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    BBBNH wrote: »
    Apologies if this has been asked a million times, i can't find nothing relating directly to it.

    Ok, those who are self employed need to be earning minimum wage in order to qualify for UC? Is that before or after expenses? With regards to the current rules, under the tax credit system, are you supposed to earn minimum wage before or after expenses?

    What happens to parents who are together and also lone parents once their child starts school? How many hours are they supposed to work (both those that are employed & self employed?)

    I just want to be prepared & i also want to inform some of my friends who are totally oblivious.

    I have heard from other threads on here, that under UC rules, a lone parent must work full time (so i imagine 38 hours) once their child is at full time school. Not sure about parents who are part of a couple though.
  • sammyjammysammyjammy Forumite
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    WantToBeSE wrote: »
    I have heard from other threads on here, that under UC rules, a lone parent must work full time (so i imagine 38 hours) once their child is at full time school. Not sure about parents who are part of a couple though.

    Well if you've read it it's not true, neither is full time for UC rules 38 hours, its 35. Single parents with children between 5-13 will have limited conditionality, that being school hours only.
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
  • OrvilleOrville Forumite
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    sammyjammy wrote: »
    Well if you've read it it's not true, neither is full time for UC rules 38 hours, its 35. Single parents with children between 5-13 will have limited conditionality, that being school hours only.


    Does that mean you actually have to find work within school hours or say if you do early mornings or evenings as long as you work the equivalent hours your fine..?

    My job is early mornings but sometimes i may stay on till well any time, 10am / 11am depending on the needs of the business..?. I also own my own website that i tend to look after while nipper is at school and after. I am down as self employed for that too at 12 hrs a week...
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