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cyclist deaths & the law

edited 30 November -1 at 12:00AM in Motoring
500 replies 25.1K views
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  • ParadigmParadigm Forumite
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    gkerr4 wrote: »
    absolutely not. This is just blame shaming - "hmm, cyclist seem to be getting killed a lot - lets train them some more"

    when was the last time a cyclist ran into a car and killed or injured the car driver...hmm practically never? even the cyclist / cyclist or cyclist / pedestrian interface is practically unheard of.

    it's the other way around - driver education - that they don't own the road, that there are vulnerable road users out there for whom they have a duty of care and that they need to just share the damned road a bit better.

    its in the drivers interest to do this also - as every cyclist on the road is probably one less car on the morning commute.

    Gawd, don't take much to stir up cyclists does it?
    So the bit in bold is the reason not to have any training whatsoever? The fact that a cyclist is going to always come out 2nd best isn't a reason for some basic safety training, simple stuff like don't go up the inside of trucks/buses at traffic lights?

    I've already said I'm in favour of ongoing driver training but to leave it at that & pin all responsibility on the motorist is fantasy...

    Jeez, wish I'd gone for the "they should all be insured & taxed" idea, at least then I could understand the hostility.
    Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!
  • custardy wrote: »
    what, you mean when a driver ploughs into the back of a cyclist on a straight piece of road?

    Obviously not as cut and dry as that though is it?
  • zagfleszagfles Forumite
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    vax2002 wrote: »
    I do a fair bit of Cycling myself, well I own a bike...
    However you do get the militant Road rage cyclist who insist on undertaking vehicles turning left, they dont get it that if someone over takes you on the right, that does not mean you can undertake them on the left if they are turning left a mile later.
    Unless you want to DIE that is.
    A cycle never is the weapon of choice in a road rage argument.

    The best I have seen was a female driver turning left off a dual carriageway when Mr Militant decides to undertake and he ends up grabbing the mirror and hurling abuse, to which she shouted at the top her voice.
    You sir are going to end up as a F****ing stain on the road if you keep riding like that.
    Classic line.
    I do often wonder how many killed are militant car haters in Hi viz clothing as opposed to those who obey the traffic rules and highway code.
    We know some drivers make mistakes as well, but that is not the correct tool to enforce your anger upon.
    Become a bus driver if you want to run people over.
    Yes some moron did this with me the other day. Clearly indicating left and he undertook me. And don't get me started on the idiots who think red lights don't apply to them...
  • custardycustardy Forumite
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    Sgt_Pepper wrote: »
    Obviously not as cut and dry as that though is it?

    isnt it? read the links
    The whole point of the thread.
  • Dave_C_2Dave_C_2 Forumite
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    zagfles wrote: »
    Yes some moron did this with me the other day. Clearly indicating left and he undertook me..
    As a cyclist and a driver I agree on this point. Apart from being covered in every Cycle training course, this is detailed in the highway code rules 72 and 73
    And don't get me started on the idiots who think red lights don't apply to them.
    You mean these idiots?

    Dave
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  • One of my colleagues is a driver who routinely creeps up to 40mph in a 30 limit, and constantly has people 'pulling out in front of him' - in reality, he sees a situation developing and actually accelerates into it so he can blast his horn.

    He's cycled to work with me a few times now, and it's terrifying. Leaving our site he just rides straight out into the road without looking. Hops onto the path round traffic lights and wonders why I don't follow. Turns without signalling or looking behind. But he always wears a helmet so that's OK.

    This man is a rubbish driver and a rubbish cyclist.

    Training will make no difference - he knows the rules, he just chooses to ignore them.
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  • custardy wrote: »
    isnt it? read the links
    The whole point of the thread.

    As they're press reports they are obviously more comprehensive than the police reports. So not the full story.
  • mikey72mikey72 Forumite
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    Sgt_Pepper wrote: »
    As they're press reports they are obviously more comprehensive than the police reports. So not the full story.

    One of the stories states the driver claimed the cyclist had no lights. Not denied by the police. So it does beg the question, there was no doubt he was speeding, and driving badly, but on what he thought was a deserted road. So, would he have been quite so rash if he saw the light on the other side, coming towards him?
  • Johnmcl7Johnmcl7 Forumite
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    Paradigm wrote: »
    I recognise what you are saying but some kind of formal training for cyclists can only be good surely?

    Ok, no amount of training will account for every situation/idiot but if it makes a cyclist more aware of the dangers then it helps minimise risk.

    No, I don't really think so - the problem with it would be it would likely need to be voluntary which clearly isn't going to be any use for those that can't be bothered in the first place. For anyone who wants to learn any rules of the road or profiency there are numerous resources already out there.

    That and I don't think poor cycling is due to lack of knowledge and needing help, it's just cyclists being impatient and not paying attention. Many of the rules of the road for cyclists are not difficult, cycle on the left hand side of the road, stop at red traffic lights, show which way you're going etc. I don't think the cyclists I see breaking these rules don't know them, it's just they're ignoring them. I also think it's common sense that the better you can be seen, the less the chance you have of someone hitting you because they didn't see you - I can't believe it when I see people cycling at night in dark clothing, no lights and nothing reflective which makes them very hard to see.

    Horrible to read the stories in the news articles particularly when they were well prepared, I always hope if I'm visible and careful I'll be ok but clearly that's not guaranteed. I generally stick to quieter roads and it's not that busy up here anyway, I dno't like the busy high speed roads at all.

    John
  • ParadigmParadigm Forumite
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    custardy wrote: »
    The 'type' are those without experience or knowledge
    Or do you propose someone with 30 years+ cycling experience goes on a course?

    I've got 30 years driving experience & have yet to hit a cyclist, I'm prepared to go on a course. Why not you?
    custardy wrote: »
    my point(not rant as you seem to think it is) is that as usual theres usually an angle that somehow theres an underlying cause from the cyclist.
    The storys I lniked to(and i can get more if you wish) show experienced cyclists who are killed through driver error(if im being generous)

    There will always be driver error for as long as we're human! Cyclists are human too &, strangely enough, make errors.

    The drivers in the links you posted were found not guilty &, as I wasn't at the scene at the time of the incidents, I can't begin to second guess the findings.
    Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!
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