Mother going into care,owning half the house question

2

Replies

  • edited 22 April 2012 at 11:35PM
    Mr_TedMr_Ted Forumite
    1.1K Posts
    edited 22 April 2012 at 11:35PM
    Its clear that the NHS charter and other legislation is and has been totally ignored and manipulated, including recent government dictates by the house of lords that no one should have to sell there property when they are ill, and dementia is an illness not any part of the natural ageing process!

    Its also the NHS breaking their guidelines on assessment when they should do them, AND advise people of their rights and processes available without asking, and the NHS charter is not about degree's of illness!

    Forget what should be and focus on what is, such as: -
    http://www.nhscare.info/
    and in particular
    http://user28153.vs.easily.co.uk/nhscare/stevesq.htm

    The way this matter is abused is totally disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If the processes are carried out correctly, fairly, clinically, by the right people as dictated there should be no need for any appeal, but the ability to pay is far to often what is considered.

    Believe me I know, as my Mother was basically KICKED OUT of a mental hospital because they couldn't handle her, which is a joke in itself as if they couldnt cope how could severity be an issue, the minute they found out she had her own property!!!!!!!
    She was also assessed by one PCT as legible for CHC then moved and denied it by another, WHAT A DIABOLICAL SHAMBLES, the legislation applies to the NHS IN TOTALITY NOT INDIVIDUAL PCT'S, and there should be no need for the endless appeals, and waste of public funds, to get an individuals legal rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9660925.Family_win_battle_with_NHS_over_dementia_bill/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1254996/The-Great-Betrayal.html

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1609498/Elderly-long-term-care-How-avoid-cope-costs.html

    Now tell me who is misleading who and whether or not this could be a landmark case, as it clearly IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Unless you've experienced it ticktack dont give a one sided opinion, unless of course you work for the NHS, or maybe your MINTED????????????
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  • edited 22 April 2012 at 11:47PM
    tweetertweeter Forumite
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    edited 22 April 2012 at 11:47PM
    re: 1 If its a joint tenancy and not tenancy in common there should be no problem of you staying in the property. HTH

    Landregistry
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  • PollycatPollycat Forumite
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    Mr_Ted wrote: »
    Its clear that the NHS charter and other legislation is and has been totally ignored and manipulated, including recent government dictates by the house of lords that no one should have to sell there property when they are ill, and dementia is an illness not any part of the natural ageing process!

    Its also the NHS breaking their guidelines on assessment when they should do them, AND advise people of their rights and processes available without asking, and the NHS charter is not about degree's of illness!

    Forget what should be and focus on what is, such as: -
    http://www.nhscare.info/
    and in particular
    http://user28153.vs.easily.co.uk/nhscare/stevesq.htm

    The way this matter is abused is totally disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If the processes are carried out correctly, fairly, clinically, by the right people as dictated there should be no need for any appeal, but the ability to pay is far to often what is considered.

    Believe me I know, as my Mother was basically KICKED OUT of a mental hospital because they couldn't handle her, which is a joke in itself as if they couldnt cope how could severity be an issue, the minute they found out she had her own property!!!!!!!
    She was also assessed by one PCT as legible for CHC then moved and denied it by another, WHAT A DIABOLICAL SHAMBLES, the legislation applies to the NHS IN TOTALITY NOT INDIVIDUAL PCT'S, and there should be no need for the endless appeals, and waste of public funds, to get an individuals legal rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9660925.Family_win_battle_with_NHS_over_dementia_bill/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1254996/The-Great-Betrayal.html

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1609498/Elderly-long-term-care-How-avoid-cope-costs.html

    Now tell me who is misleading who and whether or not this could be a landmark case, as it clearly IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Unless you've experienced it ticktack dont give a one sided opinion, unless of course you work for the NHS, or maybe your MINTED????????????

    But it's perfectly OK for you to give a 'one sided opinion' - or to be more accurate have a 'rant'.

    You've already started one thread with the link to the ITV.com story - don't hi-jack someone else's thread with it as well.

    And the number of exclamation marks and question marks you put into a post doesn't make your point any more valid.

    As ticktack says, you don't know if the OP's Mum will be assessed as qualifying for NHS funded care.
    Mr_Ted wrote: »
    Check this out, as it is possible it is a landmark decision, or should be?
    Wow! In 2 posts, this has gone from being a possible landmark decision to being a clear landmark case.
    Mr_Ted wrote: »
    Now tell me who is misleading who and whether or not this could be a landmark case, as it clearly IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just because you think it should be a landmark case doesn't mean it is.
    From what I've read, it's you who are misleading people, not ticktack.

    Also from what I've read, it seems all PCTs aren't doing the assessments in the same way.
    In essence, it can be a postcode lottery - just the same as getting ordinary treatment on the NHS can be.

    I do agree that that is wrong and PCTs should be made to assess cases in the same way so that 2 identical cases get the same decision, regardless of where in the country they are.

    But it doesn't mean that ALL PCT decisions are wrong.
    The links you gave show people who won their appeals. Not every PCT decision is wrong and therefore not everyone will will get funded care.

    Michele336
    As others have advised, I would start your own thread, it makes it easier for posters to give advice to each specific issue instead of it all getting mixed up.
  • lallysmumlallysmum Forumite
    418 Posts
    Hi Inlimbo

    I have been in exactly the same position as you. I am 34,my mother has just (well November) gone into a care home with dementia. We bought the house jointly in 1999 although I didn't actually put any money in to in, just paid the mortgage for the last 13 years.

    I had to show that I had paid the mortgage (or a portion of it) through 3 years of bank statements. I had to provide proof that the mortgage/house was in joint names. It took 3 months but I finally got the letter saying that the house would not be taken into consideration when sorting out the care home fees, but that if I sell it or rent it out then it will.

    I was told by mum's social worker initially that she felt the house wouldn't be taken into consideration because a) i lived there as mum's carer and b) because my son is also disabled.. but when it came down to it, the finance team initially said that none of that counted. I had to prove everything as listed above.

    Good luck with it all.
  • I think it is unlikely that you would be forced into a sale but the council may attempt to put a charge over the asset. Although you have joint ownership you may have to demonstrateyour beneficial ownership. I am thinking here about the purchase discount applied to the purchase price. If you were not living in the house prior to the purchase the council may argue that your Mum started off having a larger beneficial ownership. On the other hand as you have paid the bills you could argue that you actually have a larger stake in the house than your Mum. It could get complicated. I suggest you contact https://www.couselandcare.org.uk who have a number of very good fact sheets and a free helpline.

    You should also ensure that prior to discharge the hospital carry out a continuing healthcare checklist to see if your Mum should have a full CHC assessment.
  • JuneBowJuneBow Forumite
    302 Posts
    Inlimbo wrote: »
    Hello,


    We each own half of the house that i currently live in with her(i pay the mortgage),would we have to sell the house to pay for her care costs?
    Where do i stand on the matter? I'm right in thinking it cannot be transferred to me also as that is "deprivation of assets"?

    Thanks alot for your time.

    No need to transfer it to you. If you are still living in the house the LA must assess mums interest in the property as nil. See "Palfrey"

    If you do not live in the house, the position is different and there is a case "Wilkinson" on this matter.

    Do not taint your ownership by transferring her share to you as this may be seen as deprivation of assets to avoid fees. You will be ok provided you continue to live in the property.
  • Hello again,

    Thanks for all your replies,next week i'm having a meeting with a solicitor regarding the matter. So i'll know more then i guess.

    My mum has vouchers for "respite care" firstly,me and my sisters have been around a few care homes(really not looking forward to the day when she has to go in) one in particular stood out as being nice.

    It looks like we're going to try it for a few days and see how it goes.
    I'll let you know what happens with the solicitor!

    Thanks again
  • edited 30 April 2012 at 8:24PM
    Mr_TedMr_Ted Forumite
    1.1K Posts
    edited 30 April 2012 at 8:24PM
    Pollycat wrote: »
    But it's perfectly OK for you to give a 'one sided opinion' - or to be more accurate have a 'rant'.

    Having been through a situation for nearly 10 years with 2 PCT's contradicting the each others outcome and the stress and pressure that it causes IF I WANT TO RANT I WILL AS ITS ABOUT TIME I LET OFF STEAM, and from what I have seen the 2 of you who have taken exception do NOT seem to have any experiences to justify critiscism!!!!
    wrote:
    You've already started one thread with the link to the ITV.com story - don't hi-jack someone else's thread with it as well.

    It is NOT a hijack it is relevant!!!!
    wrote:
    And the number of exclamation marks and question marks you put into a post doesn't make your point any more valid.

    Clearly it makes some take notice!!!
    wrote:
    As ticktack says, you don't know if the OP's Mum will be assessed as qualifying for NHS funded care.

    Its not a matter of knowing its a matter of what should be!!!
    Do you know how debilitaing Vascular Dementia is or how severe, the facts are if a persons normal functions are impaired then an assessment should be done without having to ask and by that fact CHC is justified, and that is most likely to be the case here!!!

    wrote:
    Wow! In 2 posts, this has gone from being a possible landmark decision to being a clear landmark case.
    Just because you think it should be a landmark case doesn't mean it is.
    From what I've read, it's you who are misleading people, not ticktack.

    Any decision that is a matter of legal president as this now is and the reasons why CHC was granted in this case make it a landmark case never mind the fact that it should not have gone to this stage to get what is just!!!
    wrote:
    Also from what I've read, it seems all PCTs aren't doing the assessments in the same way.
    In essence, it can be a postcode lottery - just the same as getting ordinary treatment on the NHS can be.
    I do agree that that is wrong and PCTs should be made to assess cases in the same way so that 2 identical cases get the same decision, regardless of where in the country they are.

    ABSOLUTE TOSS, there is a National Guideline NOT, an area one, but it is not being applied or the correctly qualified people carrying out the assessments in a lot of cases and no cases are identical just as no human is, but they should be judged on their merits in accordance with ther same laid down and legal Procedure. There are legal statutes that are being ignored and that is NOT RIGHT!!!!
    wrote:
    But it doesn't mean that ALL PCT decisions are wrong.

    But it does not mean they are RIGHT also, unfortunately many are and that is why laws have been amended, yet they are still NOT being complied with!!!!
    wrote:
    The links you gave show people who won their appeals. Not every PCT decision is wrong and therefore not everyone will will get funded care.

    The links I gave are to people and organisations who are fighting for the rights and justice for MANY, and highlighting the injustices and how the system is being abused by many Authorities!!!
    Anyone with any concerns should NOT take them as misguidance!!!

    Too many people on this Forum give an opinion based on their thoughts and not their experiences, I DONT, so if you have nothing positive to add BUTT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry to OP but please read as much as you can on the situation and prepare, you are entitled to an assessment and almost certainely fully funded CHC, but as the links I have posted show be prepared to have to fight for something you are legally entitled to and have paid for by contributions, as have your parents before you, IT IS YOUR RIGHT!!!

    BEST OF LUCK
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  • PollycatPollycat Forumite
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    I could have replied to each of your points but this just backs up what I think of your post
    Mr_Ted wrote: »
    Too many people on this Forum give an opinion based on their thoughts and not their experiences, I DONT, so if you have nothing positive to add BUTT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Your 'opinion' is based on your Mum's case.
    I don't doubt the worry, hassle and stress it must have caused.

    BUT, as you point out, it is only based on your experience.

    FWIW, myself & ticktack were just advising the OP not to automatically believe you when you say her Mum is entitled to CHC (it was not criticism, rather a warning to the OP not to take your post as 100% fact) - unless of course, you have personally examined her and are one of the key decision makers in her case.....

    Thought not. :cool:

    And you're wrong - excessive punctuation marks don't necessarily make some people take notice, it often just signifies that someone is having a rant.
  • BigglesBiggles Forumite
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    Inlimbo wrote: »
    Thanks for all your replies,next week i'm having a meeting with a solicitor regarding the matter. So i'll know more then i guess.
    You may know more, maybe not, depending on the knowledge of the particular solicitor. But you'll certainly be poorer.

    A solicitor would be my last option at this stage, especially as you don't even know whether the LA would want to take the house into account (which does seem unlikely).

    I'd be inclined to talk to AGE UK and the LA before spending money unnecessarily.
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