Thermal Solar Power - worthwhile under the upcoming RHI scheme?

1246

Replies

  • edited 13 March 2011 at 5:45PM
    Ken68Ken68 Forumite
    6.8K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Energy Saving Champion Home Insurance Hacker!
    ✭✭✭✭
    edited 13 March 2011 at 5:45PM
    Prices will rise because customers have to use accredited agents.

    p.s. Navitron Budget Kit DIY £939.09 For checking after RHI comes in.
    Navitron Solar Kit 1/2 £1772.87. " "
  • Ken68 wrote: »
    Prices will rise because customers have to use accredited agents.


    Prices will fall if my experience of PV is a guide or firm up for a period But RHI is not really going to affect consumers yet because it is still not decided. RHI is only announced for Business use, not Domestic. Perhaps PV prices may rise though if the unfortunate disaster in Japan affects Silicon production.
  • Ken68Ken68 Forumite
    6.8K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Energy Saving Champion Home Insurance Hacker!
    ✭✭✭✭
    Accredited and preferred suppliers, in any language, means backhanders and a reduction in the competition pool. Therefore, prices rise.
  • Ken68 wrote: »
    Accredited and preferred suppliers, in any language, means backhanders and a reduction in the competition pool. Therefore, prices rise.

    Not my experience of the PV industry and fail to see the connection for RHI. Prices will always be the best you can get away with as a profit is the aim of a capitalist economy. But competition and established prices are already in the market, therefore the risk is minimal and not my experience.
  • edited 14 March 2011 at 10:22PM
    zeupaterzeupater Forumite
    5.1K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭
    edited 14 March 2011 at 10:22PM
    Not my experience of the PV industry and fail to see the connection for RHI. Prices will always be the best you can get away with as a profit is the aim of a capitalist economy. But competition and established prices are already in the market, therefore the risk is minimal and not my experience.
    Hi

    I think what ken68 is referring to is backed by previous experiences in the 'green' market sector when grants were the driving force (pv,thermal, GSHP etc). It was extremely strange that when the grants had run out, the prices fell and when new money became available they went up again .....

    Also, the current inflated pricing for pv in the UK should be compared to Germany, a country in the single European market .... their prices for a fully installed system seem to average around £2.35/Wp, however, German installers, with considerably more experience in the industry than their British counterparts are prevented from operating in the UK unless they first gain MCS accreditation .... supposedly a single market without barriers to trade or employment restrictions has been restricted by a scheme intended to actually achieve the opposite and protect margins in the UK whilst the market is allowed to mature, however, despite massive reductions in panel and inverter pricing over the last 12 months the list pricing published by major players in the sector haven't moved at all, so margins are increasing in a protected sector and that's not what should be happening under MCS.

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • Ken68Ken68 Forumite
    6.8K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Energy Saving Champion Home Insurance Hacker!
    ✭✭✭✭
    Not unlike an insurance claim, traders love them.
  • zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    Also, the current inflated pricing for pv in the UK should be compared to Germany, a country in the single European market .... their prices for a fully installed system seem to average around £2.35/Wp,

    HTH
    Z

    Problem is you are not comparing the costs of operating here to there. I'd also be surprised at those prices given the cost prices I see for material from Germany. Their installers wouldn't be making any profit. Volume would see you around £3.25/W
    Margins aren't increasing in this market installed prices have fallen by 25% from this time last year. Last year price for 4kW was 17-20k now it's around £13.5 again this all depends on quality.

    Price shouldn't be an issue one should be after quality. The FIT tariff is so generous everyone is winning at current prices and with the trend it will only get better until the tariff drops.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Forumite
    0 Posts
    MoneySaving Newbie
    our solar panels raised the whole tank temperature to 54 today and on each of the past few sunny days. It has been managing 45 over the last few weeks, except on dull days of course. We haven`t had to use our stove the past couple of days for either hot water of ch. The panels are fantastic and tbh we bought this place because of the massive energy saving and very low carbon foorprint. We didn`t know about RHI or FIT payments but they are absolutely the icing on the cake
  • edited 15 March 2011 at 9:32PM
    zeupaterzeupater Forumite
    5.1K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭
    edited 15 March 2011 at 9:32PM
    Problem is you are not comparing the costs of operating here to there. I'd also be surprised at those prices given the cost prices I see for material from Germany. Their installers wouldn't be making any profit. Volume would see you around £3.25/W
    Margins aren't increasing in this market installed prices have fallen by 25% from this time last year. Last year price for 4kW was 17-20k now it's around £13.5 again this all depends on quality.

    Price shouldn't be an issue one should be after quality. The FIT tariff is so generous everyone is winning at current prices and with the trend it will only get better until the tariff drops.
    Hi

    I'm sure that you do see prices from Germany, but I beg to differ on a couple of points. I know this is a solar thermal thread, however, the points are particularly relevant when discussing UK pricing of almost any 'green' technology ...

    Firstly, as many who follow posting on this forum closely would be aware prices for solar pv in Germany are certainly at the levels I mentioned ..... please reference this recent post ..... http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=41293950&postcount=554 .... which relates to a study on average German installations in 2010 .... and also to the latest panel spot market pricing analysis which was updated today ..... http://www.solarserver.com/service/pvx-spot-market-price-index-solar-pv-modules.html ... note that the site also provides guidance to the price of a fully installed 'turnkey' installation.

    Margins for larger installers who publish a list price are definately increasing ..... take for example Tesco/Enact pricing at £14.5k for a 4kWp system, a price which has been stable for around 12months so obviously they are either paying the same for their materials as they were 12 months ago, or their margins have increased. The two companies mentioned are typical on not having updated their list pricing ... British Gas and a number of other large organisations don't seem to have moved on standard pricing either.

    I agree that quality of equipment and installer is important, however, the same equipment from the same factory is installed in the UK & Germany, a country with similar labour costs to the UK, and the installers are not walking away from the market sector, so they must be quite happy with their margins ....

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=41293950&postcount=554 .... which relates to a study on average German installations in 2010 .... and also to the latest panel spot market pricing analysis which was updated today .....

    I agree that quality of equipment and installer is important, however, the same equipment from the same factory is installed in the UK & Germany, a country with similar labour costs to the UK, and the installers are not walking away from the market sector, so they must be quite happy with their margins ....

    HTH
    Z

    Thank you for the Link.

    in defense the survey does not state the average installed size. My experience of Germany is that typically the minimum size installed is much higher which would translate to lower average costs /W. under 100k/W is not small here in the UK, under 4kW is the comparison. Systems in the UK are typically smaller 1-4 kw and consequently the cost to install such per watt is higher.

    Whilst I agree lowering Tariffs will bring down costs the market is still very small yet and when last I checked, are not hitting government targeted installs.

    I'm going to Germany tonight, I'll ask installers for you for a quote on a 2kW and 4kW system installed and let you know, won't very scientific but it will be from the horses mouth.
This discussion has been closed.
Latest News and Guides