SORN Fine

MrsPorridge · 31 October 2010 at 10:41AM

DH has just realised that he should be submitting SORN for his 7 vintage motorcycles which he has not ridden for over 15 years and which are kept in a garage. We have just registered SORN online and it has come up that it is an offence and we may be fined. Anyone know if we will be fined and approx. how much?

opinions4u · 31 October 2010 at 10:46AM

From memory, it's £80 a go but if it goes to court can escalate to £1,000.

Edit: Linky to confirm that

Keith · 31 October 2010 at 11:01AM

If they've never been SORN then you don't need to start doing it, as long as he's owned them for 15 years.

If they were untaxed since 1998 then it's fine and DVLA won't be interested.

mikey72 · 31 October 2010 at 12:05PM

Sorn only applies to vehicles that were taxed when the sorn came in, then the tax expired.
If you were to tax one of the bikes, and then take it off the road again, then you would need to keep sorning it.
I don't know how the system would cope now you have applied to sorn them, as it would believe you have had tax on them, then not declared since sorn came in.
See what they send you when they acknowledge it.

Wig · 31 October 2010 at 12:08PM

There is a date, before which, if they were not taxed - simply registered in your name, then you don't need to declare SORN ever. I don't know that date without looking it up.

If you change the vehicle keeper after that date or declare SORN or tax them, you will have just started a whole lot of hassle for yourself, namely that you won't receive a fine (this time), but you will now have to renew the SORN for each bike every year from now on and if you don't, you will be fined.

If you haven't done it for them all yet - STOP registering them SORN until you know what that date is.

HappyMJ · 31 October 2010 at 12:15PM

It isn't called a fine even opinions4u linky doesn't call it a fine. It's a penalty. It's a civil matter which is rarely if ever brought to court. You will only be brought to court if you are caught with an untaxed or sorned motor on the road. So you can safely ignore any penalties for having a motor which has not been sorned as long as you are keeping them off the road. You will get a series of letters for about 1 year then the penalty is written off.

molerat · 31 October 2010 at 12:17PM

When SORN isn't needed

SORN isn’t needed if:

you no longer have the vehicle and DVLA has been informed
your insurance company has written off the vehicle
you take the vehicle abroad permanently
you apply for a refund of vehicle tax and don’t keep the vehicle
you are keeping the vehicle off the road and untaxed for less than 14 days
your vehicle was last taxed before 31 January 1998

mikey72 · 31 October 2010 at 12:33PM

HappyMJ wrote: »

It isn't called a fine even opinions4u linky doesn't call it a fine. It's a penalty. It's a civil matter which is rarely if ever brought to court. You will only be brought to court if you are caught with an untaxed or sorned motor on the road. So you can safely ignore any penalties for having a motor which has not been sorned as long as you are keeping them off the road. You will get a series of letters for about 1 year then the penalty is written off.

It's a penalty, as it's payable automatically. Don't ignore it, or it'll go to court, and you'll pay a lot more.
If you do receive any penalties, phone or write and explain what has happened, they will normally cancel them.

Wig · 31 October 2010 at 12:41PM

HappyMJ wrote: »

It isn't called a fine even opinions4u linky doesn't call it a fine. It's a penalty. It's a civil matter which is rarely if ever brought to court. You will only be brought to court if you are caught with an untaxed or sorned motor on the road. So you can safely ignore any penalties for having a motor which has not been sorned as long as you are keeping them off the road. You will get a series of letters for about 1 year then the penalty is written off.

The part (SORN fine) that you refer to is not a penalty or a fine (same thing really), it is a "supplement" or "supplemental charge" recovered as a debt in a civil court. Which is why they don't often go to court for it.
But there is still a possibility of being 'fined'

31C (1) A person guilty of an offence under section 31A(1) is liable on summary conviction to— (a) an excise penalty of—
(i) level 3 on the standard scale, or
(ii) five times the amount of vehicle excise duty chargeable in respect of the vehicle concerned,
whichever is the greater; and

(b) if subsection (3) applies to him, an excise penalty (in addition to any under paragraph (a)) of an amount that complies with subsection (2).

(2) An amount complies with this subsection if it— (a) is not less than the greater of—
(i) the maximum of the penalty to which the person is liable under subsection (1)(a), and
(ii) the amount of the supplement (if any) that became payable by him by reason of non-renewal of the vehicle licence for the vehicle that last expired before the commission of the offence; and

(b) is not more than the greatest of—
(i) the maximum of the penalty to which the person is liable under subsection (1)(a),
(ii) the amount mentioned in paragraph (a)(ii), and
(iii) ten times the amount of vehicle excise duty chargeable in respect of the vehicle.

(3) This subsection applies to the person if— (a) he was, at the time proceedings for the offence were commenced, the person in whose name the vehicle concerned was registered under this Act, and

(b) that vehicle was unlicensed throughout the period beginning with the commission of the offence and ending with the commencement of those proceedings.

The bit in blue only applies if you have ignored any letters and still subsequently refused to SORN or licence the vehicle

Gloomendoom · 31 October 2010 at 2:29PM

As has been said, if they haven't been taxed since 1998 then you don't need to SORN them. IIRC once you do SORN them you will need to remember to do so every year from then on.

You may have, unnecessarily, made a rod for your own back, but you have committed no offence.

HappyMJ · 31 October 2010 at 3:10PM

Wig wrote: »

The part (SORN fine) that you refer to is not a penalty or a fine (same thing really), it is a "supplement" or "supplemental charge" recovered as a debt in a civil court. Which is why they don't often go to court for it.
But there is still a possibility of being 'fined'

31C (1) A person guilty of an offence under section 31A(1) is liable on summary conviction to— (a) an excise penalty of—
(i) level 3 on the standard scale, or
(ii) five times the amount of vehicle excise duty chargeable in respect of the vehicle concerned,
whichever is the greater; and

(b) if subsection (3) applies to him, an excise penalty (in addition to any under paragraph (a)) of an amount that complies with subsection (2).

(2) An amount complies with this subsection if it— (a) is not less than the greater of—
(i) the maximum of the penalty to which the person is liable under subsection (1)(a), and
(ii) the amount of the supplement (if any) that became payable by him by reason of non-renewal of the vehicle licence for the vehicle that last expired before the commission of the offence; and

(b) is not more than the greatest of—
(i) the maximum of the penalty to which the person is liable under subsection (1)(a),
(ii) the amount mentioned in paragraph (a)(ii), and
(iii) ten times the amount of vehicle excise duty chargeable in respect of the vehicle.

(3) This subsection applies to the person if— (a) he was, at the time proceedings for the offence were commenced, the person in whose name the vehicle concerned was registered under this Act, and

(b) that vehicle was unlicensed throughout the period beginning with the commission of the offence and ending with the commencement of those proceedings.

The bit in blue only applies if you have ignored any letters and still subsequently refused to SORN or licence the vehicle

Really should quote 31(A) and 31(B) of that Act. It is an offence to have an unlicensed vehicle. It is an exemption at the relevant time the vehicle is neither kept nor used on a public road. It is not a criminal offence to not SORN a vehicle. It simply is a civil matter between DVLA and yourself.

And yes there is a difference between an "criminal" fine and a "civil" penalty. You could go to jail for not paying a fine and not paying a penalty will only lead to a CCJ in the worst case scenario.

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