'Policing benefit bashing in the forum: valid debate or hate crime?' blog discussion

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  • WhiteHorseWhiteHorse Forumite
    2.5K Posts
    amy0611 wrote: »
    Remove all information about benefits - Sorted.
    The government loves you.
    "Never underestimate the mindless force of a government bureaucracy
    seeking to expand its power, dominion and budget"
    Jay Stanley, American Civil Liberties Union.
  • WhiteHorseWhiteHorse Forumite
    2.5K Posts
    Butti wrote: »
    It wasn't so much that we lost him as he was hounded out. The people sending him abusive PMs, sending other people abusive messages and PMs under a name very very very similar to his and publicly attacking him just got too much. Many of us believe that this group included those working for banks, debt collectors and other financial institutions, basically those organisations that DFWs need protecting from and need to be given clear advice about. We believe he was very effective in this and that is why he was hounded out.
    Snoops representing government and business scan and troll on these boards. Only a fool of the first water would think otherwise.

    There are also posters who are, quite frankly, sick in the head. Although relatively few, their persistence and sheer viciousness gives them a degree of influence out of all proportion to their number. If allowed free rein, they will come to dominate the boards.

    So, more moderators please.

    But beware. Because moderating is a thankless and time consuming task, it is those very bullies who are most likely to volunteer. I have seen this elsewhere and in each and every instance it has resulted in the eventual collapse of the forum in question.
    "Never underestimate the mindless force of a government bureaucracy
    seeking to expand its power, dominion and budget"
    Jay Stanley, American Civil Liberties Union.
  • WhiteHorse wrote: »
    Snoops representing government and business scan and troll on these boards. Only a fool of the first water would think otherwise.

    Not just representing government and business, some on certain other forums gleefully pat each others on the back for the disruption they have caused, and plan the next invasion, nothing to do with views or right and wrongs.

    Its amazing the things you can find on google when your board :o:p

    For instance, one of the authors of a rather nasty comment on this blog http://www.insiders-view.co.uk/money-saving-expert-forum-fans-attempt-to-take-down-insiders-view/00912

    Seems to be connectet to the attack of a recent poster that was mentioned earlier.

    Martin and this whole forum has its enemies, and it is not always to do with any view or belief, it’s just for the pleasure of causing agro in a lot of cases.
  • amy0611amy0611 Forumite
    37 Posts
    Originally Posted by amy0611 viewpost.gif
    Remove all information about benefits - Sorted.
    WhiteHorse wrote: »
    The government loves you.

    WhiteHorse: Funny how snipping someone's message completely changes the meaning...

    You have deliberately misconstrued my message.

    I'm sure people that are not out to fan the flames will read my message in full as posted earlier>>>

    The solution...
    is fairly simple.

    Remove all information about benefits - both the information pages and the discussion/'slagging off' pages.

    The information people require is freely available from other places on the Internet and elsewhere. Anyone who needs help on how to defraud the system is ruining this wonderful resource we have and we shouldn't be supporting fraud anyway, and anyone who is genuine can go to the official places to get the help they need.

    No one should be hounded out of a public forum and people should hand their heads in shame. Martin - you probably will be affected by this bad state of affairs at some point so pull the plug now.

    Sorted.
  • amy0611 wrote: »
    Originally Posted by amy0611 viewpost.gif
    Remove all information about benefits - Sorted.


    WhiteHorse: Funny how snipping someone's message completely changes the meaning...

    You have deliberately misconstrued my message.

    I'm sure people that are not out to fan the flames will read my message in full as posted earlier>>>

    The solution...
    is fairly simple.

    Remove all information about benefits - both the information pages and the discussion/'slagging off' pages.

    The information people require is freely available from other places on the Internet and elsewhere. Anyone who needs help on how to defraud the system is ruining this wonderful resource we have and we shouldn't be supporting fraud anyway, and anyone who is genuine can go to the official places to get the help they need.

    No one should be hounded out of a public forum and people should hand their heads in shame. Martin - you probably will be affected by this bad state of affairs at some point so pull the plug now.

    Sorted.

    Nobody that I am aware on the benefits board as been hounded out.

    My experience of the benefits board is that people are able to be offered some good information that is explained in easy terms. Most posters will use references in their posts to back up what they have said. Yes, at times we do get posters that want to exploit the benefits system, but these are reported to @abuse which are removed ASAP. I think that abuse do work around the clock removing offending posts, but unless the posts are reported then there is not alot they can do.

    Recently we decided to compile a benefits guide [a sticky on the benefits board; still needs to be finished] and some regulars and some newbies contributed towards it. There is a good community spirit on there and people who are vunerable are supported very well. The only problem that I have come across is posters in DT moaning at me when I have to move threads over to the discussion board, but this is in accordance with the rules on the benefits board. In the main, a lot of people recieve help and do appreciate it.
  • Minerva69Minerva69 Forumite
    797 Posts
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    amy0611 wrote: »
    is fairly simple.

    Remove all information about benefits - both the information pages and the discussion/'slagging off' pages.

    The information people require is freely available from other places on the Internet and elsewhere. Anyone who needs help on how to defraud the system is ruining this wonderful resource we have and we shouldn't be supporting fraud anyway, and anyone who is genuine can go to the official places to get the help they need.

    No one should be hounded out of a public forum and people should hand their heads in shame. Martin - you probably will be affected by this bad state of affairs at some point so pull the plug now.

    Sorted.

    Don't agree with this at all, sorry. I'm not a frequenter of the benefits boards (maybe I'll check them out now) but I don't think they should be removed. Some benefits, such as tax credits or pension credit, affect many people and it would be useful to have somewhere on MSE to go for advice about these and other benefits. There are "official" channels, as you say, but not everyone knows where to find these and will come straight to MSE if they are already registered here. If the boards and information on the main site were removed a lot of vulnerable people may not know where to go to get help. Please don't remove this useful information Martin.
  • amy0611 wrote: »
    is fairly simple.

    Remove all information about benefits - both the information pages and the discussion/'slagging off' pages.

    The information people require is freely available from other places on the Internet and elsewhere. Anyone who needs help on how to defraud the system is ruining this wonderful resource we have and we shouldn't be supporting fraud anyway, and anyone who is genuine can go to the official places to get the help they need.

    No one should be hounded out of a public forum and people should hand their heads in shame. Martin - you probably will be affected by this bad state of affairs at some point so pull the plug now.

    Sorted.

    I thought the problem with the 'publicly available' information was that it wasn't always that clear. The Benefits board helps people to know exactly where to look.
    Debts at LBM - Mortgages £128497 - non mortgage £27497 Debt now £[STRIKE]114150[/STRIKE][STRIKE]109032[/STRIKE] 64300 (mortgage) Credit cards left 0



    "The days pass so fast, let's try to make each one better than the last"
  • Martin has created a monster. A large number of posts on the benefit board are clearly people looking to claim fraudulently or looking to find a work around.
  • edited 4 August 2010 at 9:59PM
    RuthnJasperRuthnJasper Forumite
    4K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    edited 4 August 2010 at 9:59PM
    I haven't read the above posts - I don't want anything to anger me into a hasty response.

    My late maternal-grandfather (Grampy) was a prominent war hero during WWII. Involved in significant operations such as the Normandy Landings (D-Day), Arnheim (A Bridge Too Far) and in the first medical team with the British Unit that liberated Bergen-Belsen Nazi concentration-camp (he never slept at night again, for the rest of his life, after that). Therefore, I am more acquainted with actual 'hate crime' than I ever wish to be.

    MSE provides an important forum for debate on BOTH sides of the argument. Yes; if any post is abusive, racist, or otherwise offensive, it should be reported and deleted. But PLEASE do not abolish rational, balanced debate. That's how it starts. Freedom of speech is a precious thing in this world - as long as it is not overly-extreme.

    Gassing babies for no reason other than race is a hate-crime. Offering a forum for debate (whilst deleting any "flamers" out to cause mischief) is democracy. Do not confuse the two.

    Martin Lewis deserves the highest honour in the Queen's List for all he has done to help the desperate and lonely in this country. People shouldn't slag-off him or his work just because they don't see eye-to-eye. Life's too short.

    R x

  • laurel7172laurel7172 Forumite
    2.1K Posts
    Martin-you seem like a lovely chap, and, as a fellow wet liberal I say to you-ban the abusers. I don't spend a lot of time on the benefits board, but it's getting silly. My impression is that if anyone posts a query, there's a good chance they'll get several abusive posts before a helpful one. If they stick around that long.

    I'm a moderator on another site, and though we've agonised and agonised over free speech, there are some people who are simply there to cause trouble or take out their aggression on strangers. It's strange that this should happen on a benefits board, because the aggressors are usually people with a great deal of spare time during the day, but people are odd. And those who get kicks out of attacking strangers online are even odder. You can't reason with them-they aren't reasonable. Hiding behind their keyboards, they probably don't even think of themselves as habitually aggressive-it's always the OP's fault.

    Three strikes. Warning, final warning, out. And if the IP matches someone previously banned, or comes via a proxy, one strike.
    import this
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