Names added to deeds of inherited house but don’t remember signing anything.

bicyclist

10 years ago mum (widow) had my and my sister’s names added to her (owned outright, freehold) property deeds. We have the Land Registry document (but no other relevant documents) which has all three of us listed under section: ‘B. Proprietorship Register’; ‘Title Absolute’ However, we have no (and apologies if any of these are not applicable/relevant):

• TR1
• Deed of Transfer
• Declaration of Trust

My sister doesn’t think she signed anything to do with adding our names (although does remember mum mentioning around then she wanted to do it, to ‘protect’ the house if she got taken into care. She never was). And I am sure I did not sign anything (I only found out just before mum passed last year that I was on the deeds).

A. How likely is it this could have been done without us knowing?

B. If we did happen to have somehow completely blanked the memory, and we did sign something, should there be a TR1, Deed of Transfer or Declaration of Trust somewhere (if applicable)?

C. If it turns out mum managed to get us added ‘without our consent’ what do we do now? We are roughly 6 weeks from completion to sell the house.

D. Might this turn into a whole can of worms?!?

We two siblings are the sole co-executors/inheritors. Ultimately I don’t think it would affect what we inherited (everything was split 50/50 between us), but it could affect CGT.

user1977

If you're 6 weeks from completion…haven't you asked your solicitor? I can't see it upsets the sale, as you can both sign as individuals as well as executors. But may be a CGT implication as you're both selling your 1/3 interests as individuals.

bicyclist

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81998995#Comment_81998995

1st port of call tomorrow will be the solicitors that did the work (IF it turns out there should be one of those three documents I mentioned). First need to figure out if we didn’t actually have some sort of memory glitch!

tetrarch

A. Many years ago my in-laws presented my Wife with solicitor-drawn documents stating that she was now the owner of their house. We immediately got this reversed, but it IS possible to do it.

B. There must be some documentation, somewhere

C&D - Can of worms is right

CGT, IHT and Gifts with reservation implications

There is a great overview here: https://www.taxexpert.co.uk/dont-put-your-home-into-the-names-of-your-children/

Was the name transfer done as part of administering your late father's estate? I know that DoV's have to be signed by affected parties but the research that I have done that that is only true if they are affected negaitvely, either financially or with new obligations of some sort. (I assume that now that would be the case if the legatee was a first time buyer and the transfer would take away some of their FTB and/or second home privileges - not so 10 years ago). The last thing you want is the CGT to be assessed as though you own your portion of the house at the original purchase price.

Regards

Tet

Keep_pedalling

The TR1 would have would have been sent to the LR so unless copies were made and kept you can’t see it now. The TR1 is the deed of transfer.

A declaration of trust would only be made if the property was to be held as tenants in common in unequal shares so would not have been needed in this case.

The up side of this situation is that as surviving owners you could sell without the need to obtain probate, but the downside is that you and your sibling are going to have a CGT liability that needs paying within 60 days of the sale. If the estate is large enough it could also have an impact on IHT as although she was only the legal owner of 1/3 of the house she was the beneficial owner of all of it as she continued to live there after gifting 2/3rd of it away so the 7 year rule does not apply and the whole house forms part of her estate for IHT purposes.

The transfer should not have been possible without your consent but it is quite possible you and your sibling signed the paperwork without realising what it was for.

bicyclist

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81999313#Comment_81999313

A. Good to know!

B. All we have is the Land Registry 'Official copy of register of title' document.

C&D. I realise that everything being equal, we'd pay a lot less CGT if we weren't on the deeds. IHT was based on house full value, not our 1/3 shares (as we didn't understand much then - been quite the learning curve!) I don't /think/ there are Gifts with Reservation implications, but will read that thread.

The name transfer seems to have been done about 8 months after dad passed. He had no estate to speak of and everything was wound up by then. I don't own property (though have in the past) - my sibling does own property.

bicyclist

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81999327#Comment_81999327

You're correct - we are (were) Tenants in Common with (as nothing else was stipulate) equal shares. We weren't sure about the need for probate but applied and got it quickly (3 weeks or so). IHT was calculated based on the full house value as we didn't know we needn't include our 1/3 shares.

tetrarch

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81999399#Comment_81999399

Here's where you might have to be careful. If it was DoV then your portions of the house have been yours since your Dad's estate was wound up.

If, on the other hand, it was (or is deemed to be) a gift-with-reservation then the property may be considered still in your Mum's estate for IHT

I think that you should take professional advice

Regards

Tet

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81999392#Comment_81999392

Hopefully no one claimed first buyer relief of SDLT if the purchases occurred after the transfer of the property.

The instructions, though maybe in odd language, are on the TR1 form:

The transferor must execute this transfer as a deed using the space opposite. If there is more than one transferor, all must execute. Forms of execution are given in Schedule 9 to the Land Registration Rules 2003. If the transfer contains transferee’s covenants or declarations or contains an application by the transferee (such as for a restriction), it must also be executed by the transferee.

So those losing all/part of the property have to sign the form but those receiving it only have to sign it if there are covenants or declarations that the receiver must agree to. Assuming there arent then you can give away your home to whoever you like without their knowledge/consent.

silvercar

interesting that you can give away a home to someone without their consent, so lumbering them with potential SDLT if they would then lose FTB status when they bought for themselves and giving them a CGT liability. For nothing in return, particularly if they didn’t know about it.

bicyclist

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81999680#Comment_81999680

If it was DoV(?) I don't think that would affect much as it was only ~6 months later the deeds were amended.

If it was a GWR I don't think this would affect anything as we used the full house value for IHT calculations.

Agreed! Professional advice would be best. Thanks.