Money Moral Dilemma: Is it fair to keep the loyalty points from doing my neighbour’s shopping?

Ergates

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81994115#Comment_81994115

I'm suggesting the rewards belong to the person who spent their money in ASDA to buy groceries. i.e. the person who forms a contract with the shop - which is what generated the rewards points.

Jemma01

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81994256#Comment_81994256

But OP is not spending their money in ASDA, they're spending the old man's money on behalf because he can't physically do it (which again, is very kind of OP). There would be no reward without the money spent.

Ergates

They're not spending the neighbour's money in ASDA, they're spending their own money in ASDA.

The neighbour is then reimbursing them for the cost when OP gives them the groceries.

They sound similar, but are fundamentally different. For instance - if it turned out that the neighbour didn't have enough to pay for the groceries, OP would be left out of pocket.

The neighbour asks OP for <groceries>
OP provides <groceries> and is reimbursed by neighbour.

How OP gets <groceries> is OP's problem and is not part of the agreement between OP and neighbour.

If you want a moral question around this set up it's not "Should OP give the rewards points to the neighbour" it's "Are the rewards points incentivizing the OP to shop somewhere more expensive to the detriment of the neighbour" (seems unlikely given OP is shopping at ASDA)

Jemma01

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81994357#Comment_81994357

Again, there would be no reward without the money which still belong to the neighbour whether paid upfront or afterwards. As long as the neighbour paid, it is their reward. That expenditure wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the neighbour needing it. OP wasn't even questioning if the reward is theirs "by definition of being physically in ASDA", the question is whether it is ok to keep it given everything they do for the neighbour. OP isn't just doing the shopping, they're involved in paying neighbours's bills and getting contractors in and pretty much managing the neighbour's life. To assume they don't know if he has the money is a joke.

Again, I think OP is doing a fantastic job and I'm sure if the neighbour didn't have dementia, he'd be happy for OP to keep it. I'm challenging this flawed logic of "contractually it is the person in the shop" when there would be no person in the shop without the money/expenditure the award is tied up to.

Ergates

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81994400#Comment_81994400

The physical location of the purchaser is of no relavence. I didn't say "by definition of being physically in ASDA" or "contractually it is the person in the shop" - so putting those in quotes is misleading.

The "To assume they don't know if he has the money is a joke." wasn't an assumption - it was an example of the difference between shopping with someone else's money, and shopping with your own money and then getting reimbursed. The same would be true if the neighbour died suddenly, or forgot they'd asked for the groceries and refused to pay for them. The point is that at the point of purchse the money being used is the OP's money, NOT the neighbours. This means that at this point the groceries belong to the OP. The contract that generates the rewards points is between the supermarket and the purchaser, the neighbour is not involved in this contract so has no claim to the points.

The transfer of the groceries to the neighbour and the consequent reimbursement of OP is a separate transaction and isn't one that generates reward points.

The "That expenditure wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the neighbour needing it." is also irrelevant. If I have friends or relatives over for dinner I'll need to buy extra food to feed them, generating more reward points than I usually would. Do I owe them the points? Obviously not, that would be absurd.

Cantandrex

Really? Be the 'good neighbour' that you are showing that you are by doing the right thing - get him a loyalty card and use it for his shopping. You are actually committing fraud and this could be seen as financial abuse of an older, vulnerable person.

Seems odd that you should admit what you are doing in writing (evidence of the fraud!)

tastyhog

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82005436#Comment_82005436

What nonsense