What on earth is going on with my electricity? Should I go to the Ombudsman?

mathilde

Hi everyone. I was with Bulb before, but then Bulb was taken over by Octopus in 2023. 

By the way I have E7 storage heaters which were installed when the property was built, in 1999. These operate under the E7 system so I've always had a dual tariff. 

So Octopus have been weird about my bills, showing large credits but then when I request a refund saying, "Oops no actually you owe us money." And no detailed statements, apart from one sent in Nov 2023 which seemed a lot higher than expected.

Finally I asked for an updated statement and I asked them to confirm whether I was still on the dual-rate system. They said no, I was showing as a single-rate meter! They also said that they're looking into my account because there are a lot of issues. Here's what they've said in their latest email: 

"Please note that it does appear your change of supply meter reads have been submitted on the old meter. Additionally, the new meter currently situated on the property does not appear on the national system."

I think what they're referring to is that Bulb iinstalled a smart meter in 2022, shortly before they went out of business. After the engineers left, my storage heaters no longer worked. They returned but couldn't fix it and told me "Tough luck". I got the Ombudsman involved, who directed Bulb to compensate me.  I hired a local electrician who was able to get my heaters working again. Then shortly after that, Octopus took over.

I'm just not sure where this leaves me.  Octopus say they've been looking into the issue but how much more time am I meant to give them? Would it make sense to contact the Ombudsman again? Or just switch to a new provider?

EssexHebridean

Could you take  a photo of your meter set up, showing how many leads come out of the bottom, and where they go to? That will help establish what the problem is, although it’s sounding as though potentially your replacement meter isn’t supporting your E7 requirements, and your electrician has put your storage heaters onto the daytime circuit. If this is the case you will be paying well over the odds! 

QrizB

EssexHebridean said:

Could you take  a photo of your meter set up, showing how many leads come out of the bottom, and where they go to?

I agree with EssexHebridean.

The problem might be entirely at Octopus's end, but it's also possible that Bulb made a hash of installing your smart meter and whatever-it-is that your electrician did has caused more problems.

Photos of the meter, your consumer units (fuse boxes), and any other electrical gubbins will help us understand exactly what's going on.

mathilde

Thanks so much for responses! 

QrizB

The two thinner wires coming out of your meter snake across the bottom of your photo and into a white box (?) at the bottom of your cream consumer unit.

Could we have a photo of that white box, please?

And of the cream consumer unit, if possible?

mathilde

Thanks for your response! Here's the whole unit. In the second photo I opened the fuse boxes just for the heck of it. 

Keep_pedalling

That is one strange set up. What you seem to have is everything fed off a single feed and rather than have a timer controlling when your storage heaters come on is a manual switch. Do you have individual timers on those heaters? 

Scot_39

Can you clarify a little more your paragraph on the history - and current operation.

Did the old meter actually control the activation of NSH - or was there a third party controller involved. (There have been a series of threads with contactors for NSH in CUs - but controlled not by meters but bespoke control panels) 

when / did the meter change from multirate Profile Class 2 to single rate Profile Class 1 ?

(did you have one or 2 meters before the meter swap by the way ?)

your tariffs / single or dual rate charged ?

your day night registers operational or not and based on what didnt work or did  - did and do readings then accurately reflect that

before, 

after meter switch (which may include HW on a timer from the top CU section annotation its 24/7 live I guess but at night rate in night register as well as 7 hrs normal circuits - lights / freezer etc ), 

after own electrician work (including the NSH operational - billed on which register ?) 

and 

what is the text on the far left 6A MCB - in bottom row I thought something rail initially - maybe contactor tail instead ?)

whether you need own timers on the 4 NSH - or they are now only switched live at off peak times by meter.

Meter fitters often have very limited scope - they are not normally involved in issues involving complex CU and old bespoke heater controls - their responsibility ends before the CU - and your set-up is not the typical E7 set-up these days.

Where a 5 port meter would drive a switched on board 100A tail output -  or a 4 port meter and a supplier supplied external contactor - like say a Proteus 100A single pole module - again driving a single 100A CU tail - to the customers own restricted CU isolator switch.  So its not unexpected you might have needed your own electricians input.

I dont think you should automatically blame Octopus or Bulb / their fitters for this - although they should perhaps have made that "their vs your" split clearer.

But I suspect it is best to give them the opportunity to fix meter types, tariffs etc if they can.  As they AFAIK - have essentially taken over all Bulbs liabilities - and so have done things like compensate bulb customers for errors after the event - financially in terms of balances etc at any rate.

And at least in many forumite's reports - Octopus do seem better at resolving things like meter problems for their customers than other suppliers.

If the national database is wrong - the error will just transfer to a new supplier in any case.  And its easier for the responsible supplier Octopus nee Bulb to resolve such issues (some used to say had to be the supplier at time of install - but not sure its quote that rigid).

[From the photos - hardware - my simplistic thoughts

The E470 is the 4 port version of the 5 port E470/E470L model - but I cannot read the exact config to match the chart in the specification.

But it does according to this manual have an internal auxiliary relay contact circuit (2A max) on at least some variants 

https://www.smartme.co.uk/docs/D000058620 E470 Series3 SMETS2 User Manual and Functional Description ISSUE 1_2.pdf

"The meter is fitted with an internal relay which is controlled by time-of-use
switches and may be used to control an auxiliary load control switch
(ALCS)"

So on the face of it - it is a meter capable of not only E7 tariffs (all smart meters are AFAIK ) but also indirect E7 restricted circuit control - the ALCS functionality.

And its not unreasonable to suggest that might be the 2 thin wires - given the S1/S2 location shown on page 28 - wiring schematic page 29.

Looking in the CUs

Bottom row RHS - an MCG - and 225 ? or was that MCO and 226 ? if Ive read the photos right - is a 4 pole NO 25A per pole contactor, with a 230V coil activation to close. 

Something akin in functionality to 

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/3879917-25a-modular-contactor-4-no-contacts-230v-coil

Its at a guess capable of being driven by the meter - by auxiliary ALCS relay switched S1 S2 input output terminals - and then the feed NSH breakers from that MCG poles feeding the 4 storage heaters in the lower panel - but only if S1 say input supplied with 230V in first place.  The meter only provides the coil and contacts - not the 230V output itself - maybe the old meter / heater controller did - maybe the meter fitters didn't wire it up ?

But without stripping lower CU back and visually inspecting wiring / checking it out with a meter - wouldn't like to guarantee it.  Especially as there are 5 MCBs and only 1 4 pole contactor.  See Q above re text label

And as well as potentially the Bulb team failue to configure ALCS - did Bulb at that time think the meter was also single rate - or not doing any auxiliary control - perhaps a hardware mismatch between meter S1 S2 and the MCG coil would have made the NSH inoperable - and that hardware issue - would have been customer scope as a general rule. ]

QrizB

Thanks for the photos.

My take on this is the same as Scot_39 above; the two thin wires from the smart meter are the ALCS connections and are switching the contactor at the bottom right of your consumer unit to energise the five adjacent circuits (storage heaters?) during off-peak periods.

Ildhund

Not sure I can add much. QrizB's mysterious white box seems just to be a switch for the 2A feed from the meter's ALCS to the contactor in the lower CU, which looks to be one of these:
  


So the storage heaters fed by this CU along with whatever the breaker at the LH end feeds (I can't for the life of me read its label) will be energized according to the meter's ALCS calendar. It's notable that the water heater isn't also on the restricted feed, but it's possibly an on-demand beast that doesn't heat up a tankful at cheap rate overnight.

@mathilde's MPAN may give some clues to what metering arrangement Octopus think she's got. That's the 'S' panel off a recent electricity bill, like this:
 

[nnnn is the sensitive bit, that a malicious actor could use to find your address. Hide it if you post yours here.]   

mathilde

Good morning, thanks so much for this help! To answer some questions, yes there are five storage heaters. My old meter had two figures showing, night and day. I understood that the change to E7 happened automatically (rather than a manual switch). I remember the previous owner explaining that it was 7pm to 4am, so I've always been careful to do laundry, batch cooking etc after 7.

That's really interesting that perhaps only the heaters themselves are on E7? I thought all of the electricity in the flat was, but that might have been my misunderstanding.