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Neighbour claims he owns loft.

245

Comments

  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    user1977 said:
    sak said:

    My son and partner have every document that can possibly be obtained proving the loft is theirs. However, it seems that because the neighbour insists he owns their part of the loft they will have to take him to court. 
    Why? If somebody (wrongly) claims that they own part of your property, so what? You don't need to take them to court, unless, say, they're actually occupying it and you need to kick them out.

    Going to court about the harassment is a separate matter of course.
    Because no-one is keen to buy a property with the person next door claiming he owns the loft and tramping about on your ceilings!
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Because no-one is keen to buy a property with the person next door claiming he owns the loft and tramping about on your ceilings!
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Does your son need the entire loft? Would the matter be resolved if they say they only had what was directly above their house and removed the flying freehold?
    My son wants to move due to the months of harassment suffered from the people next door. However, no-one wishes to purchase a property when the neighbour claims to own the loft and tramples about on your ceilings. Besides which, my son owns the loft so why should he say he does not?
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    eddddy said:
    Brie said:
    Someone has recently told me (so no proof this is true) that where there are flats with lofts above them the owners of the flats being leaseholders do not in fact own the lofts.  The freeholders own the lofts instead as they in fact own the roof of the building.  

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)

    Happy to be corrected.

    The OP mentions ...

    sak said:
    My sons first floor has a flying freehold over approx 2ft of next doors property although it is not mentioned on the deeds.  

    So it sounds like the properties are freehold, not leasehold.

    And so presumably, the neighbour is claiming that they have a flying freehold, because 'their' loft is situated above (part of) the OP's son's house.


    eddddy said:
    Brie said:
    Someone has recently told me (so no proof this is true) that where there are flats with lofts above them the owners of the flats being leaseholders do not in fact own the lofts.  The freeholders own the lofts instead as they in fact own the roof of the building.  

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)

    Happy to be corrected.

    The OP mentions ...

    sak said:
    My sons first floor has a flying freehold over approx 2ft of next doors property although it is not mentioned on the deeds.  

    So it sounds like the properties are freehold, not leasehold.

    And so presumably, the neighbour is claiming that they have a flying freehold, because 'their' loft is situated above (part of) the OP's son's house.
    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.

    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.
    Does your son need the entire loft? Would the matter be resolved if they say they only had what was directly above their house and removed the flying freehold?
    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.

    eddddy said:
    Brie said:
    Someone has recently told me (so no proof this is true) that where there are flats with lofts above them the owners of the flats being leaseholders do not in fact own the lofts.  The freeholders own the lofts instead as they in fact own the roof of the building.  

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)

    Happy to be corrected.

    The OP mentions ...

    sak said:
    My sons first floor has a flying freehold over approx 2ft of next doors property although it is not mentioned on the deeds.  

    So it sounds like the properties are freehold, not leasehold.

    And so presumably, the neighbour is claiming that they have a flying freehold, because 'their' loft is situated above (part of) the OP's son's house.


    My sons house has the flying freehold of the first floor therefore, the upper habitable floor. Whoever owns the upper flying freehold owns the loft. Unfortunately this neighbour is just being bloody minded and trying to stop their sale. He was living next door when my son purchased the property and never said a word about owning entire loft then.
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 20 October 2024 pm31 8:21PM
    Both properties are freehold. The flying freehold on the upper floor belongs to my son. Therefore, we have been advised that the owns the part of the loft above the f/f.  As the property is old and was originally one property there is no fire wall. Apparently lots of old houses are like this but most people are happy with the loft above their home and don't want anyone else's loft!
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    sak said:
    eddddy said:
    Brie said:
    Someone has recently told me (so no proof this is true) that where there are flats with lofts above them the owners of the flats being leaseholders do not in fact own the lofts.  The freeholders own the lofts instead as they in fact own the roof of the building.  

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)

    Happy to be corrected.

    The OP mentions ...

    sak said:
    My sons first floor has a flying freehold over approx 2ft of next doors property although it is not mentioned on the deeds.  

    So it sounds like the properties are freehold, not leasehold.

    And so presumably, the neighbour is claiming that they have a flying freehold, because 'their' loft is situated above (part of) the OP's son's house.


    eddddy said:
    Brie said:
    Someone has recently told me (so no proof this is true) that where there are flats with lofts above them the owners of the flats being leaseholders do not in fact own the lofts.  The freeholders own the lofts instead as they in fact own the roof of the building.  

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)

    Happy to be corrected.

    The OP mentions ...

    sak said:
    My sons first floor has a flying freehold over approx 2ft of next doors property although it is not mentioned on the deeds.  

    So it sounds like the properties are freehold, not leasehold.

    And so presumably, the neighbour is claiming that they have a flying freehold, because 'their' loft is situated above (part of) the OP's son's house.
    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.

    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.
    Does your son need the entire loft? Would the matter be resolved if they say they only had what was directly above their house and removed the flying freehold?
    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.

    eddddy said:
    Brie said:
    Someone has recently told me (so no proof this is true) that where there are flats with lofts above them the owners of the flats being leaseholders do not in fact own the lofts.  The freeholders own the lofts instead as they in fact own the roof of the building.  

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)

    Happy to be corrected.

    The OP mentions ...

    sak said:
    My sons first floor has a flying freehold over approx 2ft of next doors property although it is not mentioned on the deeds.  

    So it sounds like the properties are freehold, not leasehold.

    And so presumably, the neighbour is claiming that they have a flying freehold, because 'their' loft is situated above (part of) the OP's son's house.


    My sons house has the flying freehold of the first floor therefore, the upper habitable floor. Whoever owns the upper flying freehold owns the loft. Unfortunately this neighbour is just being bloody minded and trying to stop their sale. He was living next door when my son purchased the property and never said a word about owning entire loft then.
    Both properties are freehold.
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    user1977 said:
    Brie said:

    If this is in fact true then the neighbour doesn't own the loft above your son's property but it is the freeholder who does.  So unless the neighbour is also the freeholder there's no cause for dispute.  (obviously the neighbour will disagree)
    We don't know the neighbour isn't the freeholder, and even if not, they could have a lease which includes the loft. Though the OP suggests son has title to the loft. Not clear what the grounds for any dispute are.
    Both properties are freehold. Despite the fact my son purchased the property in 2019 with no problems at all and the neighbour was living next door at the time this is just a person being spiteful. We find it unbelievable that we have every document possible stating that the entre property is my sons but someone can claim they own the loft and our only recourse is to go to court!
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    tacpot12 said:
    Your son needs the professional help of a solicitor, which he has got. 

    Your son needs to accept that the deeds don't prove his legal ownership of the loft, and therefore it is open to debate. Having a decision in court and getting new deeds drawn up to record the court's decision seems to be the only way forward.

    Once this is done, your son can declare, when selling the house, that there are no active disputes. I would not mention that there was a dispute in the past unless this specific question is asked.

    I have learned from a number of property transactions that solicitors are not very good at spotting problems with deeds. There is a simple reason for this. They do not visit the property and look at what the property looks like and compares this to the deeds. I had a problem rooted in this when I bought my third house. Neither me nor the solicitors noticed that the Title Plan at the Land Registry didn't show the garden! I owned the house for 13 years without realising that I didn't own the garden! This error only came to light when I came to sell the property. Luckily, I had a receipt for fencing done when I had bought the property that showed I had enclosed the garden at least 12 years before I wanted to sell the property and so was able to sucessfully claim adverse possession of the garden! Who keeps receipts for 13 years? Luckily, I did. 
    The government gave a loft insulation grant to my son. I really do not feel they would have done so if he didn't own the loft. Surely the whole point in paying a conveyancer is to ensure this sort of thing cannot happen? The conveyancer has all the documentation available going back as far as possible for both properties. Nowhere does it state that the loft above my sons property is owned by next door. It seems that I could actually decide that I own my neighbours loft and the only thing he could do is go to court! Its crazy.
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    user1977 said:
    sak said:

    My son and partner have every document that can possibly be obtained proving the loft is theirs. However, it seems that because the neighbour insists he owns their part of the loft they will have to take him to court. 
    Why? If somebody (wrongly) claims that they own part of your property, so what? You don't need to take them to court, unless, say, they're actually occupying it and you need to kick them out.

    Going to court about the harassment is a separate matter of course.
    Because no-one wants to purchase a property when the neighbour claims to own the loft and tramples all over the ceilings! Besides which would you sell a property minus a room as your neighbour claimed it was his?
  • sak
    sak Posts: 18 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Does your son need the entire loft? Would the matter be resolved if they say they only had what was directly above their house and removed the flying freehold?
    Because no-one wants to purchase a property when the neighbour claims to own the loft and tramples all over the ceilings! Besides which would you sell a property minus a room as your neighbour claimed it was his?
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