Ex tenant taking me, the landlord, to court

DE_612183

pinkshoes said:

deannagone said:

You did not have a possession order or bailiff warrant, you were not allowed to enter the property.  The property was still hers. A completed S21 order does not allow you to evict the tenant on its own, you needed a possession order and bailiffs warrant issued by a court.  Only courts or the tenant can end the tenancy.

I am afraid, if the tenant does decide to take this to court, you will probably lose and could incur further charges due to illegal eviction.  I hope you have video's of the items inside the property, this will help you establish there was no jewellery case inside the property although I would imagine the tenant would have to also 'prove' she owned this jeweller and left it there (rather strange leaving valuable items behind rather than prioritising their removal along with most of her other items).

Why not? The S21 had expired and the tenant had moved out. The tenant had also provided written evidence to the council making it clear they'd moved out. 

I thought you only need to get a possession order/bailiff warrant IF the tenant has not moved out when the S21 expires. That is not the case here.

It is quite clear here the tenant moved out, but is now trying to claim they had NOT moved out. Hopefully @barrydh and the agent took photos the day they turned up to show the property was empty, and photographing the rooms.

@barrydh I appreciate the tenant hasn't paid rent for the last two months but I think I'd just let this go, or you could remind the tenant that they still owe two months rent so if they go ahead with their bogus jewellery claim, you will be counter claiming the missing rent. 

What if the S21 was not valid - there has been no mention of a deposit logged with DPS scheme?

Just because she told the council the property would be "empty and unoccupied" does not mean she has relinquished the tenancy.

elsien

However (alleged missing jewellery aside) she has suffered no financial or any other loss  from any potential illegal eviction because she clearly had already moved. So what would she be claiming compensation for?

barrydh

DE_612183 said:

Also did she leave a deposit in a registered scheme?

Was the section 21 valid?

Yes, which has since been returned on the advice of a specialist Eviction company 

barrydh

elsien said:

However (alleged missing jewellery aside) she has suffered no financial or any other loss  from any potential illegal eviction because she clearly had already moved. So what would she be claiming compensation for?

she is claiming for a few bits of junk left behind, mental stress, jewelry

newsgroupmonkey_

There are a lot of people claiming all kinds of legal things in this thread. Some of which in my opinion are terrible advice.

I'd go get some professional advice.

born_again

One thing that would back up your case.
If she had informed council that she had moved out & was no longer due to pay council tax.

Jude57

If OP is concerned, they should contact Police themselves to find out whether any complaint of theft has actually been made and if it has, arrange to attend for interview under caution - either with their own solicitor or requiring the Duty Solicitor to accompany them. Under no circumstances should they agree to any kind of formal interview without a solicitor present.  From what the OP has written, it's very unlikely the tenant has even made a complaint to Police but on the slim chance she actually has, OP showing themselves to be cooperative and willing to assist Police enquires will, unless the OP has a long and colourful criminal record, be likely to incline Police officers to consider who, on the evidence and balance of probabilities, is telling the truth of the matter. In the unlikely event that Police believe the tenant, putting the OP's evidence as stated here to the Magistrates should result in the case being dismissed because Magistrates are not, in my experience, fools.

Even if Police aren't involved, let's assume for the sake of argument that the tenant takes out a private prosecution for the theft of the alleged jewellery. She'll have to explain to the Judge why she took all the heavy, cumbersome furniture (and white goods?), all her clothing, household goods and linens, all her pictures, ornaments and worthless tchotchkes but left behind a small (assuming we're not talking about a pirate chest size jewellery case) easily transportable box containing the Koh i Noor and the lost treasure of Atlantis. Judges aren't generally stupid and in small claims cases, they tend to take a pragmatic view but they do not like claimants lying or inflating their claimed losses for a bigger pay out. There are severe consequences for perjury, even in a Small Claims case.

The tenant could certainly claim for the treadmill and whatever other items were removed and disposed of but as these weren't, presumably, brand new, top of the range items, and she'd have to produce receipts to prove that, she'd be entitled to replacement value. What's a used treadmill cost? She has absolutely no chance of getting an award for stress unless she can produce a detailed psychiatric report. English courts very seldom award damages and it's vanishingly rare in Small Claims cases.

Voyager2002

The tenant has made criminal accusations. It is up to the police to investigate these allegations: if they find evidence to support them then they present the evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service, who decide whether or not to mount a criminal prosecution. This is not something that the tenant can decide.Crimes are not tried in civil courts, which is where cases are heard if a private individual sues someone. 

In other words, the tenant is talking nonsense when she claims to be "suing" the OP for theft and for illegal eviction.

elsien

Jude57 said:

If OP is concerned, they should contact Police themselves to find out whether any complaint of theft has actually been made and if it has, arrange to attend for interview under caution - either with their own solicitor or requiring the Duty Solicitor to accompany them. Under no circumstances should they agree to any kind of formal interview without a solicitor present.  From what the OP has written, it's very unlikely the tenant has even made a complaint to Police but on the slim chance she actually has, OP showing themselves to be cooperative and willing to assist Police enquires will, unless the OP has a long and colourful criminal record, is likely to incline Police officers to consider who, on the evidence and balance of probabilities, is telling the truth of the matter. In the unlikely event that Police believe the tenant, putting the OP's evidence to the Magistrates should result in the case being dismissed because Magistrates are not, in my experience, fools.

Even if Police aren't involved, let's assume for the sake of argument that the tenant takes out a private prosecution for the theft of the alleged jewellery. She'll have to explain to the Judge why she took all the heavy, cumbersome furniture (and white goods?), all her clothing, household goods and linens, all her pictures, ornaments and worthless tchotchkes but left behind a small (assuming we're not talking pirate chest size jewellery case) easily transportable box containing the Koh i Noor and the lost treasure of Atlantis. Judges aren't generally stupid and in small claims cases, they tend to take a pragmatic view but they do not like claimants lying or inflating their claimed losses for a bigger pay out. There are severe consequences for perjury, even in a Small Claims case.

No comment other than to say I like your style. 

Marvel1

barrydh said:

I understand about us entering the property without her permission but she refused to reply to letters sent requsting her attendance but we had no reply.  She blocked my phone number in May 2022 and the agent from about 6 months ago.  How were we to get her permission?

I'm still curious about this, answers saying shoukd not have entered etc without saying what should be done - unless I'm misreading something. 

Thst means she is still liable for council tax and rent even right now?