How to find out who owns a scruffy bit of land?

user1977

ThisIsWeird said:

I wouldn't entertain placing rocks there, as an informed person could claim - most likely successfully - for any damage caused to their vehicle as a result.

Please explain the legal basis for such a claim. "I tried to park on the private land which I don't own, and a rock jumped out suddenly at me"?

RHemmings

propertyrental said:

Eliza_2 said:

Thank you.  It seems that to do a map search you need to be a business user, so she's asking around to see if any friends are registered and can help.

No.

Go here and scroll down to "other ways to search" then "serach by map ".

You'll need an account to buy any Titles you find and want to investigate further, but it's quick, easy and free for anyone to set up an account.

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.227252893.1011285419.1624257816-2123334908.1623227908

As an example I tried to find out information on the piece of open land next to 48 Stoneleigh Way, LE3 9TE. However, there's nowhere I can click to bring up a record. I thought this is unlikely to be unregistered land, though it could easily be I suppose. If you are familiar with searching, would it be too much to ask if you can have a go? 

Returning to the thread, I'm wondering if trying to claim a bit of land as in the OP by fencing it off etc. when the OP doesn't own it is both legal and moral. Finding the owner and making an offer: no problem. But, just fencing it off and trying to have it for the OP's exclusive use? Not sure about that. 

user1977

RHemmings said:

propertyrental said:

Eliza_2 said:

Thank you.  It seems that to do a map search you need to be a business user, so she's asking around to see if any friends are registered and can help.

No.

Go here and scroll down to "other ways to search" then "serach by map ".

You'll need an account to buy any Titles you find and want to investigate further, but it's quick, easy and free for anyone to set up an account.

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.227252893.1011285419.1624257816-2123334908.1623227908

Returning to the thread, I'm wondering if trying to claim a bit of land as in the OP by fencing it off etc. when the OP doesn't own it is both legal and moral. Finding the owner and making an offer: no problem. But, just fencing it off and trying to have it for the OP's exclusive use? Not sure about that. 

It's more usually resorted to when you can't find the owner - either because it's impossible to trace successors to some ancient owner, or because the titles are so unclear. Obviously there needs to be some mechanism to allow such land to be taken back into active ownership. 

RHemmings

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

propertyrental said:

Eliza_2 said:

Thank you.  It seems that to do a map search you need to be a business user, so she's asking around to see if any friends are registered and can help.

No.

Go here and scroll down to "other ways to search" then "serach by map ".

You'll need an account to buy any Titles you find and want to investigate further, but it's quick, easy and free for anyone to set up an account.

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.227252893.1011285419.1624257816-2123334908.1623227908

Returning to the thread, I'm wondering if trying to claim a bit of land as in the OP by fencing it off etc. when the OP doesn't own it is both legal and moral. Finding the owner and making an offer: no problem. But, just fencing it off and trying to have it for the OP's exclusive use? Not sure about that. 

It's more usually resorted to when you can't find the owner - either because it's impossible to trace successors to some ancient owner, or because the titles are so unclear. Obviously there needs to be some mechanism to allow such land to be taken back into active ownership. 

I'd agree that there needs to be some mechanism. But, I am not sure that this is an appropriate mechanism. 

user1977

RHemmings said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

propertyrental said:

Eliza_2 said:

Thank you.  It seems that to do a map search you need to be a business user, so she's asking around to see if any friends are registered and can help.

No.

Go here and scroll down to "other ways to search" then "serach by map ".

You'll need an account to buy any Titles you find and want to investigate further, but it's quick, easy and free for anyone to set up an account.

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.227252893.1011285419.1624257816-2123334908.1623227908

Returning to the thread, I'm wondering if trying to claim a bit of land as in the OP by fencing it off etc. when the OP doesn't own it is both legal and moral. Finding the owner and making an offer: no problem. But, just fencing it off and trying to have it for the OP's exclusive use? Not sure about that. 

It's more usually resorted to when you can't find the owner - either because it's impossible to trace successors to some ancient owner, or because the titles are so unclear. Obviously there needs to be some mechanism to allow such land to be taken back into active ownership. 

I'd agree that there needs to be some mechanism. But, I am not sure that this is an appropriate mechanism. 

So what do you think it should be, given this is the mechanism which everybody else has been happy with (and is similar to that used in other jurisdictions e.g. Scotland)?

Section62

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

I wouldn't entertain placing rocks there, as an informed person could claim - most likely successfully - for any damage caused to their vehicle as a result.

Please explain the legal basis for such a claim. "I tried to park on the private land which I don't own, and a rock jumped out suddenly at me"?

If the land is highway it would be an offence to put rocks on it, but these days it seems more likely the local council might decide to treat the rocks as a case of "flytipping"...

E.g.

https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/arable/sugar-beet/fly-tipped-sugar-beet-removed-from-suffolk-road/

RHemmings

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

propertyrental said:

Eliza_2 said:

Thank you.  It seems that to do a map search you need to be a business user, so she's asking around to see if any friends are registered and can help.

No.

Go here and scroll down to "other ways to search" then "serach by map ".

You'll need an account to buy any Titles you find and want to investigate further, but it's quick, easy and free for anyone to set up an account.

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.227252893.1011285419.1624257816-2123334908.1623227908

Returning to the thread, I'm wondering if trying to claim a bit of land as in the OP by fencing it off etc. when the OP doesn't own it is both legal and moral. Finding the owner and making an offer: no problem. But, just fencing it off and trying to have it for the OP's exclusive use? Not sure about that. 

It's more usually resorted to when you can't find the owner - either because it's impossible to trace successors to some ancient owner, or because the titles are so unclear. Obviously there needs to be some mechanism to allow such land to be taken back into active ownership. 

I'd agree that there needs to be some mechanism. But, I am not sure that this is an appropriate mechanism. 

So what do you think it should be, given this is the mechanism which everybody else has been happy with (and is similar to that used in other jurisdictions e.g. Scotland)?

I would say it would be better if any land where ownership cannot be established can default to being owned by local government, who can then make efforts to identify the owner. Then, if that fails, adopt it for common use, or have an open auction to sell it. Whether or not other people on this thread think that an individual simply claiming the land is an appropriate method, I certainly don't. 

I'm not sure if there is any land that isn't within the bounds of local government. If so, then it could default to national government. 

Section62

RHemmings said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

I'd agree that there needs to be some mechanism. But, I am not sure that this is an appropriate mechanism. 

So what do you think it should be, given this is the mechanism which everybody else has been happy with (and is similar to that used in other jurisdictions e.g. Scotland)?

I would say it would be better if any land where ownership cannot be established can default to being owned by local government, who can then make efforts to identify the owner. Then, if that fails, adopt it for common use, or have an open auction to sell it. Whether or not other people on this thread think that an individual simply claiming the land is an appropriate method, I certainly don't. 

I'm not sure if there is any land that isn't within the bounds of local government. If so, then it could default to national government. 

Worth having a read up on the bona vacantia process for land.  The costs involved in trying to buy one of these pieces of land, and the BVD's enthusiasm for disclaiming land as the easier alternative might give some insight why local authorities are unlikely to be enthusiastic about taking on a new responsibility for land where the owner is unknown....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/refer-bona-vacantia-land-or-buildings-bvc2#overview

If the land is causing a problem - for example it has become a dumping ground or otherwise dangerous - there are existing powers for LA's to acquire ownership of the land and secure it before putting it back on the market (e.g. for redevelopment).

But more often than not the land is of very limited use - hence ending up in an auction of oddments (of the type you were looking at a while back IIRC?).

RHemmings

Section62 said:

RHemmings said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

I'd agree that there needs to be some mechanism. But, I am not sure that this is an appropriate mechanism. 

So what do you think it should be, given this is the mechanism which everybody else has been happy with (and is similar to that used in other jurisdictions e.g. Scotland)?

I would say it would be better if any land where ownership cannot be established can default to being owned by local government, who can then make efforts to identify the owner. Then, if that fails, adopt it for common use, or have an open auction to sell it. Whether or not other people on this thread think that an individual simply claiming the land is an appropriate method, I certainly don't. 

I'm not sure if there is any land that isn't within the bounds of local government. If so, then it could default to national government. 

Worth having a read up on the bona vacantia process for land.  The costs involved in trying to buy one of these pieces of land, and the BVD's enthusiasm for disclaiming land as the easier alternative might give some insight why local authorities are unlikely to be enthusiastic about taking on a new responsibility for land where the owner is unknown....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/refer-bona-vacantia-land-or-buildings-bvc2#overview

If the land is causing a problem - for example it has become a dumping ground or otherwise dangerous - there are existing powers for LA's to acquire ownership of the land and secure it before putting it back on the market (e.g. for redevelopment).

But more often than not the land is of very limited use - hence ending up in an auction of oddments (of the type you were looking at a while back IIRC?).

Thanks. I'll have a read of that link after work when I can allocate proper time to it. 

That's correct; I was looking at auctions of oddments some time ago. I'm tempted to go out and have a look at the oddments again this weekend. To see if anything has happened to them since they sold. (My prediction: nothing.)  If I recall correctly, these oddments in a relatively new build estate were owned by the original company that built the estate. And had been in their ownership for a decade or two. 

penners324

Have you tried land registry maps? There's a website that shows the land and it's registration number.